Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

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Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby miraamira » May 2nd, 2012, 3:55 pm

I bought my iRobot 535 on eBuy - it's brand new but worked only for 15-20 minutes. So I ordered replacement battery (original one from iRobot). With this new battery it constantly have charging error #1 (1 red blink) and light never turns green - but it's charging and then works.
Costumer support only offers me replacement for $200 and didn't offer any help.

Does any one have suggestions how to fix it?
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby vic7767 » May 2nd, 2012, 5:12 pm

Check the two small prongs sticking up in the battery compartment and make sure there is good contact between them and the battery. The two smaller prongs make connection to the thermistor inside the battery and the charging system must sense the thermistor in order to start charging. Sometimes better contact can be accomplished by pulling up on the two prongs. While the battery is removed pull up on the two larger prongs also, it may help with better electrical contact.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby jdell42 » July 21st, 2012, 2:21 pm

I also have just started to get charging error 1.

Background.
I have had a 560 since 2007. Over time the robot would clean for a shorter and shorter period of time and I would replace the battery. I have done this about 4 times. When I put my most recent battery in the robot it gave me a flashing red exclamation point and 1 beep.

I called iRobot and they sent me a new battery and a Osomo to update the software since it was so old. I put the new battery in and updated the software. I then received a voice that told me Error 1 vs. just a beep. So two new batteries and the same problem.

My older battering does not get this error but it only charges for about 5 minutes and the light turns green and the robot will not run more than 10 seconds.

Having read through the forum I saw lots of advice to ensure a proper connection between the small terminals on the battery and the robot. I bent the terminals over and over and still got the same error. I then decided to eliminate the terminal connection variable by connecting the 4 terminals on the robot to the battery with some jumper wire. Same result error 1 when connecting it to the power supply via the plug on the robot. Note I have two base stations and power supplies and the error 1 problem is repeated whether I plug the power supply into the robot or put it on the base station.

So I have eliminated the power supply / base, battery and the connection between the robot. I have used an RC battery charger to charge up the batteries externally and they charge fine and the robot works fine other than it wont charge normally via base station.

Anyone got any advice to fix or do I need a new motherboard? iRobot has graciously offered me a 585 for $160... new motherboard costs $125.

Thanks,

John
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby vic7767 » July 21st, 2012, 2:39 pm

If you head over to Woot right now you can get a replacement 530 for $160 with either $5 or Free shipping:
http://home.woot.com/?utm_campaign=Comm ... ate+-+text

Since you have already proven that there is an issue within the charging system on board the Roomba, you can replace the circuit board or get a rebuilt 530 for about the same cost.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby jdell42 » July 21st, 2012, 2:47 pm

Thanks.. I would like to keep the scheduling functionality of the 560.... so it sounds like a new motherboard unless someone has fixed this one.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby Gordon » July 21st, 2012, 4:57 pm

jdell42 wrote:I also have just started to get charging error 1. ...
My older battering does not get this error but it only charges for about 5 minutes and ... the robot will not run more than 10 seconds.
So, the charging system "sees" an acceptable thermistor resistance, and does engage a reasonable charging session; thus, demonstrating that the 560's main_PCA is charging-functional.
... I then decided to eliminate the terminal connection variable by connecting the 4 terminals on the robot to the battery with some jumper wire. Same result error 1 when connecting it to the power supply via the plug on the robot. Note I have two base stations and power supplies and the error 1 problem is repeated whether I plug the power supply into the robot or put it on the base station.

So I have eliminated the power supply / base, battery and the connection between the robot. ...
John, I think evidence is stacked against taking the "connection" (of battery thermistor to main_PCA ) off the table. One more test might be able to recommend additional research into the viability of those thermistor contacts.

The "test" would be a repeat of your "jumper wire" configuration, except only jumper the VBAT & GND power contacts, and make no connections to the battery's thermistor contact pads at all.

To make the main_PCA agree to begin charging you would first connect some handy resistor across the spring contacts, thus faking out the charging circuit. Any resistance between roughly 4000 ohms to 12000 ohms would do the job. Power dissipation capacity of the chosen resistor is not to be worried about, since bias current coursing through it will be just a few milliamperes.

If the 560 enters charging mode with that lashup you will once again prove the main board to be OK, the energy source in the battery, in use, to be OK, and the thermistor-contacts to battery contacts to still be suspect.
----------------------------------- CAUTION ------------------------
Now then, if you do carry out that additional test, do not permit charging to continue for an extended time, say, longer than half an hour. THE BATTERY HAS NO OVER-TEMPERATURE PROTECTION WHEN A RESISTOR REPRESENTS THE TEMPERATURE SENSOR!
Last edited by Gordon on July 21st, 2012, 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby vic7767 » July 21st, 2012, 5:05 pm

jdell42 wrote:Thanks.. I would like to keep the scheduling functionality of the 560.... so it sounds like a new motherboard unless someone has fixed this one.


Sorry, I read the subject line dealing with the 530 and missed your text about your 560. Gordon has sent you down the correct path for troubleshooting the charging err 1 issue.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby jdell42 » July 21st, 2012, 9:11 pm

Gordon, Vic,

Pretty amazing support. Thanks for your contributions.

To the problem.
I jumpered in an 8.2K resistor to the thermistor contact pads as suggested and guess what.... no more error 1 message.

I repeated my previous tests jumpering the thermistor contact pads to the battery and I got the same error 1 message. As mentioned I have four batteries... 2 old that wont hold charge and 2 new that will take a charge. For giggles I took the other 3 and repeated direct jumper test. All 3 of the other enter the charge cycle (although 2 will not hold a charge). Guess that proves I have one new bad battery and I had a connection problem on the other new battery. I fiddled with the connectors and now have one of the new batteries charging.

So I think I will cannibalize one of the old batteries for its thermistor and get this robot back into service plus a spare battery. I saw some info on shrink wrap to build a new battery but I did not save it.. anyone know who sells the large shrink to rebuild the battery?

I actually think I might take iRobot up on the $160 deal for a new 585. I don't think I will see a deal like that and I have been wanting another robot, one for upstairs and one for downstairs.

Once again.. thanks for your help.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby vic7767 » July 21st, 2012, 9:55 pm

Here's a URL to "How to hack your 500, 600, and 700 Roomba battery: http://www.robot-doc.com/25.html
Don't forget to salvage the poly fuse that is strapped between two of the sub-c cells in your duff pack. I have the blue heat shrink for that style of battery. Just send me a PM or email and I'll give you the details.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby TechGuy » July 22nd, 2012, 3:03 pm

Are the green taps are lying horizontally on top of the battery? The extra thickness is required to ensure good contact with the thermistor.

What is the resistance between the two small thermistor terminals? It should be around 10K ohms.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby jdell42 » July 22nd, 2012, 9:07 pm

TechGuy wrote:Are the green taps are lying horizontally on top of the battery? The extra thickness is required to ensure good contact with the thermistor.

Yes. The tabs were in the correct position to push the battery into the contacts.

TechGuy wrote:What is the resistance between the two small thermistor terminals? It should be around 10K ohms.

The new "non functioning" battery will not register any resistance. For my two other batteries that will not hold a charge one shows 9.6K, one jumps around between 1 and 50K. The working battery is in the robot and I dont want to mess with it.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby TechGuy » July 22nd, 2012, 9:47 pm

jdell42 wrote:...
The new "non functioning" battery will not register any resistance. For my two other batteries that will not hold a charge one shows 9.6K, one jumps around between 1 and 50K. The working battery is in the robot and I dont want to mess with it.

Replace the bad thermistor in the "non-functioning" battery with a good one from a old battery. There may be a loose thermistor connection in the "non-functioning" battery. Check and solder if this is the case.

Good luck.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby matofill » January 5th, 2013, 5:47 pm

What will be if we have thermistor, which have at room temperature ( 22st C ) 8,6 K OHM , and than we add series ( not parallel) stil one resistor cca 2 - 3 k ohm in batteries, than complete resistance will be cca 10,6 to 11,6 k OHM, which maybe will be OK, that Roobot with defective ( on board elements out of tolerance) will charge battery normal ??? What do you thing, because when thermistor is hot the resistance go down, but they will still be a little higher 2 - 3 k OHM , depends how big resistor will be added ? What do you thing ??? :P
Sory for my bad English!
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby Gordon » January 5th, 2013, 8:31 pm

matofill wrote:What will be if we have thermistor, which have at room temperature ( 22st C ) 8,6 K OHM , and than we add series ...one resistor cca 2 - 3 k ohm in batteries... What do you thing ??? ...
Study this graph:Image
which is copied from post: viewtopic.php?p=75740#p75740

Print the graph, then sketch in a second curve that is 1000 ohms above the existing curve.

Assume Roomba halts charging when measured resistance reaches 3000 ohms.

Draw a line, at the 3000 ohms ordinate, from the old curve to your sketched curve.

Notice that battery (thermistor) temperature for the sketched curve will be 10C hotter than the original charging cut-off temperature. That is what I think.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby matofill » January 17th, 2013, 6:39 pm

Today i have one interesting problem, Roomba 530 have before FW 02 and i upgraded to last FW to 07 Ok all OK, but it was not all OK , after that Roomba do not want to charge battery , they charge it only 15 minutes ..... :?: :?: :?:

:| :shock: Then i check the thermistor, battery was 1 year old original Metapo 3500 mAh NiMh and thermistor have at 25 st C only 4, 2 k OHM :( :o , but from your table it must have at 25 st C approx. 10 k OHM ??? so i thing robot are now after FW upgrade more careful and they thing that battery is too hot approx. about 40 st C and that they are full and then they stop with charges it ........ and normally if they charge it only 15 minutes, they can work only for a short time.....

Than i tested another OEM battery 4500 mAH NiMH and they also have at 25 st C 4,8 k OHM, but my basic 581 robot works OK with it even i thing that they charge it too short time ???

So what do you thing can be this thermistor problem, that robot charge battery to short time or ????? :?:

Sorry for my English, but it is not my native language, Greetings from Slovenia in Europe.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby Gordon » January 17th, 2013, 8:57 pm

matofill, I am 99.999% certain that I will be unable to help you relative to this post. I am both too ignorant about some things you write, and too uninformed about others. First you write:
matofill wrote:...Roomba 530 have before FW 02 and i upgraded to last FW to 07 ... , after that Roomba do not want to charge battery , they charge it only 15 minutes ...
I know nothing about any FW-07 upgrade. (Maybe vic7767 has some knowledge about it.) But, then you write:
...Then i check the thermistor, battery was 1 year old original Metapo 3500 mAh NiMh and thermistor have at 25 st C only 4, 2 k OHM ...
In that sentence I interpret that "1 year old original Metapo" battery had been powering your 530 properly for a year; and, that means the thermistor resistance was correct (viz., 10k ohms at 25C). No FW upgrade can affect thermistor resistance, so how did it become "at 25 st C only 4, 2 k OHM"? I can only guess that you may have run a charging session, and when charging stopped you quickly removed the battery from the robot and measured thermistor resistance. Is that what you did?
... so i thing robot are now after FW upgrade more careful and they thing that battery is too hot approx. about 40 st C and that they are full and then they stop with charges it ........ and normally if they charge it only 15 minutes, they can work only for a short time...
Well, let's say iRobot revised Roomba's battery-temperature sensing algorithm such that high-temperature cut-off would occur in the 40 to 45C temperature region, and with the result that Roomba's battery could not be fully charged in the charging time taken to elevate cell temperatures to the cut-off temperature. I find it hard to believe that iRobot would not find some way to carry charging to completion, even though it takes six hours, or more, to do it. One way would be to incorporate cool-down periods between charges to temp-cut-off. Another would be to moderate charging current to lower levels, thus avoiding heating until cells obtain full charge levels.
... i tested another OEM battery 4500 mAH NiMH and they also have at 25 st C 4,8 k OHM, but my basic 581 robot works OK with it even i thing that they charge it too short time ???
I question the use of "OEM", the abbreviation for Original Equipment Manufacturer. Someone may tell differently, but IMHO iRobot has never sold any "4500 mAh" Roomba battery. If what I say is true, then your 4500 mAh battery is a third party battery, not 'OEM".
So what do you thing can be this thermistor problem, that robot charge battery to short time or ?...
I think: 1) it might be possible for a FW revision to reasonably shift calculated battery temperature as you have determined via ultra short charging periods, and 2) I suspect your ohmmeter ought to be verified to read about 10k ohms when a new 10k ohms resistor is measured.
Sorry for my English, but it is not my native language, Greetings from Slovenia in Europe.
Not to worry, your English is 10,000X better than my Slovenian! :(
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby vic7767 » January 17th, 2013, 9:04 pm

Gordon wrote:I know nothing about any FW-07 upgrade. (Maybe vic7767 has some knowledge about it.)

iRobot did come out with an OSMO to resolve the short lifecycle of the stock 5XX Roomba battery. Also included in that same OSMO patch was a fix for the newer IR pulsed Auto Virtual Wall so they could be used with the earlier 5XX model Roombas.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby Gordon » January 17th, 2013, 9:45 pm

vic7767 wrote:
Gordon wrote:I know nothing about any FW-07 upgrade. (Maybe vic7767 has some knowledge about it.)

iRobot did come out with an OSMO to resolve the short lifecycle of the stock 5XX Roomba battery. Also included in that same OSMO patch was a fix for the newer IR pulsed Auto Virtual Wall so they could be used with the earlier 5XX model Roombas.
Well, I do recall there to be a 500-series OSMO, but do not recall anyone tagging it with any numeric revision level, such as "07". So, that was strange to me.

Also, if anyone in the USofA has applied the Roomba-500-OSMO to their Roomba and then experienced the short charging (and necessarily short cleaning) time that matofill has run into, followed by posting such information to this rr board, I have surely missed reading about it. U.S.A customers would be screaming at iRobot CS people if matofill's experience were to happen in this country!
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby vic7767 » January 17th, 2013, 11:21 pm

I think I posted a charging cycle report long ago when the 535 first came out and pointed out that it seemed to be "shades of Scooba 5900" since the battery temp went up to around 55 to 60C.

There have been a couple of international OSMO releases and that may be the reference to the 07 version.
The US version is dated 2010-06-08.
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Re: Charging error #1 - roomba 530 - need help

Postby matofill » January 18th, 2013, 10:00 am

Yes , also i have OSMO with the same date 2010-06-08 and this osmo is last for Roombas 500 at the moment and it is version 07, which version do you have on your Roombas, you can see if put roomba to heat and remove recycle bin, there is code and from code you can seen date of manufactoring and also FW version !

So , what do you thing if i replace thermistor with another, which have cca 2 k ohm more like original, i thing that will be all OK.... ?

For EX seen this : http://uksupport.irobot.com/app/answers ... NnbA%3D%3D

first is model, than date of manufactoring ................. 00 = version of firmware, so this test Roomba nr. have FW version 00 if nobody at service made any upgrade on it !
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