Lithium power for Roomba

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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby vic7767 » July 7th, 2015, 5:42 pm

It is not a single fixed value resistor. The resistance replicates the same way as if a NiMH pack were being charged. The resistance changes to a lower value to make the high current charge being applied stop and go to a lower float voltage once the LI-ion pack reaches around 16 vdc. Then the resistance is slowly increased back to around 10kOhms. I've had one pack that got stuck in the high temp mode (low resistance) and by running the Roomba for about an hour and then starting the charging session again got it out of the stuck high temp mode and normal charging completed.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby Vitaliy » July 9th, 2015, 6:03 am

Tried to run it for a while, perform battery reset, no luck. Still ERR7. :( Will return it.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby Vitaliy » July 11th, 2015, 7:46 pm

Should battery reset be performed after battery replacement?
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby vic7767 » July 11th, 2015, 9:06 pm

No need to, removing the battery performs a reset.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby Kelad » September 6th, 2016, 6:38 am

Hi Guys, I am troubleshooting an issue on a 780 for a friend. First thing i decided to do was run the BiTs. It fails all tests 22-28 (see results below). I tried different base/power supply combination and same issue. I checked battery and found a Li-Ion battery (like the one here http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BATTERY-For- ... Sw8-tWZhzj).

I removed battery and inserted a genuine roomba NiMH battery and all tests passed. My question is this: is it normal that the BiTs fail for a Li-Ion battery ?

:thanks:

roomba details:

2012-08-22-1754-L
r3_orion/tags/release-1.1.7:1031 CLEAN

bootloader id: 4705 5C5D 4FF7 3FFF
assembly: 3.8
revision: 1
flash version: 10
flash info crc passed: 1

battery-current-zero 257
BOOTLOADER-ID 4705 5C5D 4FF7 3FFF
BOARD-ASSEMBLY 3.8
BOARD-REVISION 1
flash version: 10
flash info crc passed: 1

Code: Select all
factory-test 22  int-charger-recovery
not (internal-charger-available?) PASS
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA -8  min 250  max 350  mV 20289  degrees-C 33 FAIL


factory-test 23  int-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-current-ok?) mA 0  min 1000  max 1400  mV 21291  degrees-C 29 FAIL


factory-test 24  int-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-trickle-current-ok?) mA -8  min 40  max 70  mV 20317  degrees-C 34 FAIL


factory-test 25  charger-watchdog
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-watchdog-current-ok?) mA -8  min -31  max 31  mV 15502  degrees-C 26 PASS


factory-test 26  ext-charger-recovery
not (ext-charger-available?) PASS
wait-true-for-half-second: (ext-charger-available?)
(ext-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA -8  min 250  max 350  mV 20178  degrees-C 34 FAIL


factory-test 27  ext-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (ext-charger-available?)
(ext-charging-current-ok?) mA 0  min 1000  max 1400  mV 20957  degrees-C 29 FAIL


factory-test 28  ext-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (ext-charger-available?)
(ext-charging-trickle-current-ok?) mA -8  min 40  max 70  mV 20206  degrees-C 34 FAIL
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby a1robotrepair » September 6th, 2016, 7:12 pm

That pack is complete junk and dangerous. See Robot Hacking, Building a Roomba Battery for less.
It appears from your post that the pack has suffered a failure.
No current while charging and reading 20 to 21V indicates the pack protection board has tripped.
The 15.5V reading without charge indicates that it shouldn't be tripped for over voltage of all 4 cells.
More than likely one of the 4 USED cells have failed.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby Kelad » September 7th, 2016, 4:59 am

Many Thanks a1robotrepair !
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby Kjeld Flarup » August 14th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Bearing in mind Samsung's trouble with their Galaxy models, I would ask is it safe?

Normally when using a Phone You are nearby it, but a Roomba can start automatically when You are not at home.
Also the charging worries me, are there any certifications on this stuff.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby vic7767 » August 14th, 2017, 5:25 pm

Kjeld Flarup wrote:Also the charging worries me, are there any certifications on this stuff.


I've been using Lithium cells to power Roombas, Scoobas, Neatos and various robots for the past 10 years. In the past I used to build Lithium packs to use in the Roomba and Scooba. The packs consisted of 10 to 20 cell phone Lithium cells that each had their own power control boards. I built over 200 packs for both the Roomba and Scooba. Never had any failures or fires. Due to the technology at the time there was no internal cell balancing so eventually the packs would fail and need individual charging of each cell. Some users of the packs I built did not have the means to perform a self charge and eventually other vendors with better power management boards (with cell balancing) offered better packs with better performance so I stopped building packs. The latest Lithium-NMC packs from Lithium Power Inc. have built in power control boards that manage charging and discharging in real time. The packs are UL certified and work with the iRobot OEM chargers.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby bobad » October 5th, 2017, 12:12 pm

I know there is a difference in the discharge profile in NiMH and Li-Ion cells, and I think it's rearing its head.

Just bought a Li-Ion of good parentage (Melasta 6400 mAh with 8 branded Panasonic cells). If I turn off the dock, it will run my 650 for 3-1/2 to 4 hours. Problem is, it starts flashing "dock" at about 30 minutes. So, though the Pana cells are beasts, I think the normal voltage drop is seen as a low battery. Does anyone know what voltage the 650 normally starts hunting for the dock? Is there a way of "fooling" the Roomba into running below that threshold voltage?

Many thanks,,,

Bob A.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby vic7767 » October 5th, 2017, 12:22 pm

Other than turning off the home base, there is no fooling the Roomba battery voltage firmware. Normally the Roomba begins its home base hunt at around 13 vdc.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby a1robotrepair » October 5th, 2017, 12:55 pm

There are 3 request "Dock" programming sequences.
1. Timer: the bot runs approx 1 hour. The usual run time for navigation-less Roombas.
2. I-adapt: room size calculation. Over rides Timer for small rooms. Educated guess how this works: Front IR directional receivers activated for time over timed.
3. Calculated current: the bot keeps a running log of the batteries current, set low current level. Over rides Iadapt and Timer. Seen when battery doesn't have enough capacity to run to the end of either above sequences.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby bobad » October 5th, 2017, 11:18 pm

vic7767 wrote:Other than turning off the home base, there is no fooling the Roomba battery voltage firmware. Normally the Roomba begins its home base hunt at around 13 vdc.


Yikes, I don't think my battery can even be drained that low! Lowest I have ever seen it is around 14v. It must be something else. Thanks Vic.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby bobad » October 5th, 2017, 11:36 pm

a1robotrepair wrote:There are 3 request "Dock" programming sequences.
1. Timer: the bot runs approx 1 hour. The usual run time for navigation-less Roombas.
2. I-adapt: room size calculation. Over rides Timer for small rooms. Educated guess how this works: Front IR directional receivers activated for time over timed.
3. Calculated current: the bot keeps a running log of the batteries current, set low current level. Over rides Iadapt and Timer. Seen when battery doesn't have enough capacity to run to the end of either above sequences.


Thanks so much for that info, it's good to know.

After my original question, I manually ran the 650 again. Though the Li ion battery had over 16v, it was flashing amber.

Something else is probably going on, your information is telling me it may not the battery. 1 thing I need to investigate: I have a long hall. Sometimes the Roomba bounces back and forth, and may be interpreting it as a very small room.

Thanks again,

Bob A.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby marquesalan » June 22nd, 2018, 9:01 am

Does anyone know if the "power" is the same on both types of batteries?
What I mean is when I use the original Li-Ion battery in my 900 series it seems to pick up more debris and seems to suck stronger. Is this all in my head?
I ran the unit with a Tenergy 3850mAh and it just seems to be quieter and not as efficient. There are a couple area rugs it has trouble with using the non lithium battery.
Please let me know if the Li-Ion puts out more power when it's in use. I don't care about how long it lasts. I'm more concerned with the vacuum running at full power while it's cleaning.
Thank you!
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby a1robotrepair » June 22nd, 2018, 1:43 pm

marquesalan wrote:Does anyone know if the "power" is the same on both types of batteries?
What I mean is when I use the original Li-Ion battery in my 900 series it seems to pick up more debris and seems to suck stronger. Is this all in my head?
I ran the unit with a Tenergy 3850mAh and it just seems to be quieter and not as efficient. There are a couple area rugs it has trouble with using the non lithium battery.
Please let me know if the Li-Ion puts out more power when it's in use. I don't care about how long it lasts. I'm more concerned with the vacuum running at full power while it's cleaning.
Thank you!


Why would anyone want to subject their high dollar 900 series, or any for that matter, to the Heat and Acid Fumes from a Ni-MH or Ni-Cad battery?

It is impossible to say if your Ni-MH battery has enough instantaneous power to handle a 980 which demands as much as 60 Watts, a little over 4 Amps.

Other problems have been encountered with using Ni-MH batteries in the latest, 2015 and later, 600 and 800 series. One of which is the Ni-MH Battery running all the way out of power and locking the Software in an off state.
The Roomba will not respond to any user or interface input.
Put it on the dock and it charges the battery but still no response.
Usually, after 48 hours, the bot will respond again.
A hard reset, removing the battery for about 10 minutes, may be required.

To get a Roomba to correctly read the capicity of any battery is to run the Roomba until it quits from lack of power then fully charge. This will enable the battery indicator to correctly set the color of the LED and correctly set the dock state.
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Re: Lithium power for Roomba

Postby marquesalan » June 22nd, 2018, 2:08 pm

It was free. Oh well, thanks for the judgement and informative response. I will stick to the original battery.
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