Roomba 650 mA = 0

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Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 16th, 2019, 12:06 pm

Due to I did'nt find any OSMO for my 560, I found in Ebay a 650 PCB sold as 'faulty'. When I asked about the error seller said it had a charging Error 6. I bet that 'Battery overheated' probably was a battery or thermistor defect problem, and not a PCB problem, so I bought and installed in my 560.

Now the problem is sometimes charges the battery, and sometimes does not, but never ther'es a charging error..

This is the data when not charging, state 5 and 0 mAH untill charge ends (green light)

start-charge: 2012-03-22-1549-L
do-charging-checking-fets @ minutes 0
bat: min 0 sec 36 mV 13220 mA -16 tenths-deg-C 280 mAH 0 state 1
Charging FET test passed.
do-charging-wait-initial @ minutes 0
do-charging-on @ minutes 0
bat: min 0 sec 37 mV 17701 mA -16 tenths-deg-C 280 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 38 mV 20011 mA -8 tenths-deg-C 274 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 39 mV 20874 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 266 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 40 mV 21180 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 270 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 41 mV 21291 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 276 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 42 mV 21319 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 279 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 43 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 282 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 44 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 274 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 45 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 275 mAH 0 state 5
bbox vars saved!
bat: min 0 sec 46 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 281 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 47 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 284 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 48 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 284 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 49 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 276 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 50 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 270 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 51 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 277 mAH 0 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 52 mV 21347 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 281 mAH 0 state 5
...

I tried with two operative batteries that works in my other Roomba 671 (Lithium and Ni-MH) with the same result, sometimes charges and other does not. Due to there's no any error I don't have any idea about the reason...

Regards
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby vic7767 » June 16th, 2019, 2:41 pm

On earlier Roombas in the R2 generation 4XX & 4XXX models, a negative ma reading indicated a defective charging MOSFET.
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 16th, 2019, 3:10 pm

Ups.. it sounds bad

but is it possible after indicating 'Charging FET test passed'??
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby vic7767 » June 16th, 2019, 3:20 pm

I am not sure. You could try running the BiTs program and see what the other charging tests indicate.
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 17th, 2019, 10:40 am

Only Test 23 passed, Failed the rest or external (base) charger no detected... (the same for the two bases I have)

factory-test 20 int-charger-recovery
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA -8 min 250 max 350 mV 21208 degrees-C 31 FAIL

factory-test 21 int-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-current-ok?) mA 3 min 750 max 1400 mV 21681 degrees-C 28 FAIL

factory-test 22 int-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-trickle-current-ok?) mA -8 min 40 max 70 mV 21180 degrees-C 24 FAIL

factory-test 23 charger-watchdog
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-watchdog-current-ok?) mA 0 min -31 max 31 mV 12023 degrees-C 34 PASS

factory-test 24 ext-charger-recovery
not (ext-charger-available?) PASS
wait-true-for-half-second: (ext-charger-available?)

factory-test 25 ext-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (ext-charger-available?)

factory-test 26 ext-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (ext-charger-available?)
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby leonicholson » June 17th, 2019, 5:17 pm

I suggest you buy a used bare Roomba 650, use the accessories you already have and have a spare for parts. Probably cheaper than a motherboard and the 650 has an improved CHM and Bin.
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby a1robotrepair » June 17th, 2019, 11:38 pm

factory-test 20 int-charger-recovery
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA -8 min 250 max 350 mV 21208 degrees-C 31 FAIL

factory-test 21 int-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-current-ok?) mA 3 min 750 max 1400 mV 21681 degrees-C 28 FAIL

factory-test 22 int-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-trickle-current-ok?) mA -8 min 40 max 70 mV 21180 degrees-C 24 FAIL

factory-test 23 charger-watchdog
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-watchdog-current-ok?) mA 0 min -31 max 31 mV 12023 degrees-C 34 PASS


Looking at the degrees-C readings I assume you are using an iRobot Lithium battery during your tests.
Looking at the mV readings when expecting a charge, the battery is not allowing a charge, 21+Volts on tests 20-22 and 12V on test 23.
The iRobot Li battery does not respond like a Ni-MH or Ni-Cad.
Put in the good Ni-MH and record those charging readings and post here.
That will give us a better understanding of what’s going on.
You may wish to clean U8 and it’s associated devices with 99% isopropyl alcohol and a soft toothbrush.
It conditions the battery sensors analog data and sends that data to the MCU.
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 18th, 2019, 2:04 am

leonicholson wrote:I suggest you buy a used bare Roomba 650, use the accessories you already have and have a spare for parts. Probably cheaper than a motherboard and the 650 has an improved CHM and Bin.


I'm not at all sure that a bare 650 (PCB+Sensors+Case) can be cheaper than a 650's PCB, but what I'm sure of is not cheaper than PCB I found.

Really, there were many options, from my PCB (17,97 EUR) to a bare Roomba 676 (139 EUR) to get a Wi-fi and app Roomba, an authentic a 'Black box' Roomba.

But for me this is not so much a matter of comfort in solving the problem (I have a working 671 ...) but a chance to learn about.

Regards
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 18th, 2019, 2:20 pm

a1robotrepair wrote:Looking at the degrees-C readings I assume you are using an iRobot Lithium battery during your tests.
Looking at the mV readings when expecting a charge, the battery is not allowing a charge, 21+Volts on tests 20-22 and 12V on test 23.
The iRobot Li battery does not respond like a Ni-MH or Ni-Cad.
Put in the good Ni-MH and record those charging readings and post here.
That will give us a better understanding of what’s going on.
You may wish to clean U8 and it’s associated devices with 99% isopropyl alcohol and a soft toothbrush.
It conditions the battery sensors analog data and sends that data to the MCU.


Yes, IRobot Lithium battery.
I dismounted, tooth-brushed and mounted, the last two charges were OK, I'll see the next ones, the problem does not always occur.
If (when will) fail, I'll post the Ni-MH results, now I wait for receiving a new serial cable (mine stopped working after these tests)

About brushing, may it correct some led issues (faulty or always-on) in the Panel? I've searched info about, but probably I'm not using the correct key words.

Thanks
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 25th, 2019, 1:33 pm

After registering parameters, may be anything is wrong in the voltage measure?

When does not charge Li-ON (mA 0) indicates 17-21 V after battery was discharged till red light ('please charge Roomba'), and inidcates 16-17 V with a previous parcial charge, and then it charges...

LI-ON (1800 mAh) AFTER DISCHARGE IN 650
-----------------------------------------------------
start-charge: 2012-03-22-1549-L
do-charging-checking-fets @ minutes 736
bat: min 736 sec 27 mV 12941 mA -8 tenths-deg-C 345 mAH -1 state 1
Charging FET test passed.
do-charging-wait-initial @ minutes 736
do-charging-on @ minutes 736
bat: min 736 sec 28 mV 17534 mA -8 tenths-deg-C 351 mAH -1 state 5
bat: min 736 sec 29 mV 19927 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 349 mAH -1 state 5
bat: min 736 sec 30 mV 20790 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 341 mAH -1 state 5
...

LI-ON AFTER PARCIAL CHARGE IN 671
---------------------------------------------
...
bat: min 0 sec 20 mV 15084 mA 1109 tenths-deg-C 290 mAH 2696 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 21 mV 15084 mA 1117 tenths-deg-C 287 mAH 2696 state 5
bat: min 0 sec 22 mV 15112 mA 1109 tenths-deg-C 283 mAH 2696 state 5
...

NI-MH (3000 mAh) AFTER PARCIAL CHARGE IN 671
------------------------------------------------------------
bat: min 1 sec 50 mV 16587 mA 1094 tenths-deg-C 372 mAH 2696 state 5
bat: min 1 sec 51 mV 16587 mA 1086 tenths-deg-C 372 mAH 2696 state 5
bat: min 1 sec 52 mV 16615 mA 1102 tenths-deg-C 373 mAH 2696 state 5
bat: min 1 sec 53 mV 16615 mA 1086 tenths-deg-C 373 mAH 2696 state 5
...
bat: min 12 sec 31 mV 16921 mA 1117 tenths-deg-C 422 mAH 2696 state 5
charging-done: temperature slope @ minutes 12
do-charging-waiting-trickle @ minutes 12
bat: min 12 sec 32 mV 16894 mA 1016 tenths-deg-C 422 mAH 2696 state 6
bat: min 12 sec 33 mV 16727 mA 8 tenths-deg-C 422 mAH 2696 state 6
bat: min 12 sec 34 mV 16643 mA 8 tenths-deg-C 423 mAH 2696 state 6
bat: min 12 sec 35 mV 16615 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 423 mAH 2696 state 6
...
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » June 28th, 2019, 3:15 pm

Finally, what I've seen is erratic temperature values...
+12ºC in 2 sec. during charging-tricke... and -10ºC in one sec. after this

bbox vars saved!
bat: min 12 sec 17 mV 15947 mA 55 tenths-deg-C 295 mAH 2696 state 7
bat: min 12 sec 18 mV 15947 mA 55 tenths-deg-C 285 mAH 2696 state 7
...
bat: min 52 sec 43 mV 15892 mA 47 tenths-deg-C 275 mAH 2696 state 7
bat: min 52 sec 44 mV 15892 mA 47 tenths-deg-C 361 mAH 2696 state 7
bat: min 52 sec 45 mV 15892 mA 47 tenths-deg-C 403 mAH 2696 state 7
do-charging-trickle-cooling @ minutes 52
do-charging-trickle @ minutes 52
do-charging-trickle-cooling @ minutes 52
bat: min 52 sec 46 mV 15892 mA 31 tenths-deg-C 425 mAH 2696 state 8
bat: min 52 sec 47 mV 15864 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 439 mAH 2696 state 8
bat: min 52 sec 48 mV 15864 mA 0 tenths-deg-C 435 mAH 2696 state 8
do-charging-trickle @ minutes 52
bat: min 52 sec 49 mV 15864 mA 70 tenths-deg-C 331 mAH 2696 state 7
bat: min 52 sec 50 mV 15892 mA 55 tenths-deg-C 299 mAH 2696 state 7

...
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby vic7767 » June 28th, 2019, 4:11 pm

I've seen that type of bouncing temp reading when charging LI-ion packs. The power control board tries to fool the NiMH charging system into slow top off charge but the PCB circuit is defective inside the pack.
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby fergambo » July 5th, 2019, 3:29 pm

Finally, checking temperature sense schematic, R316 & R317 are in poor condition,

Cleanning / brushing them only makes the problem worse, after this battery temp indicates when (no) charging 88- 91 ºC

At least I could see the problem, but not possible to solve due to are tiny components
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Re: Roomba 650 mA = 0

Postby RTC » July 5th, 2019, 7:10 pm

fergambo wrote:At least I could see the problem, but not possible to solve due to are tiny components

Everything today is tiny surface mount components. A soldering iron designed for such rework costs > $250 (I know as I bought one, but can no longer use it due to a tremor). For most people such cost is unjustified, for just doing a couple parts and a cheaper iron will only do more damage than there already is.

This is why most companies consider boards to be disposable and only do board swap repairs, not component level repairs.
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