Handle of Scooba Tank ???

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Postby debugger » November 8th, 2007, 3:03 am

If I remember right, isn't there someone somewhere that stores their Scooba by hanging it up by the Handle?
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Postby geekgranny » November 8th, 2007, 12:34 pm

debugger wrote:If I remember right, isn't there someone somewhere that stores their Scooba by hanging it up by the Handle?


Edit by GG: Gordon, on down a bit, has pointed out that we are discussing the handle on the tank. Thanks Gordon. I do not store tanks by the handle, rather they are on the floor of utility closet, on Scooba mat, stoppers down and open, with tank on its edge. Only the main body is stored by silver tank holder on the main body of Scooba. Sorry for the confusion. GG

Tis me. :D

No time to find post with pictures right now. I use one of those wire shelf units, the kind you can hang on wall with holders and screws or hang on the back of door. I have mine secured to closet wall. I hang them from the bottom part of handle (not the top part as they do slide off more easily), whole handle over the wire, underside of Scooba outward facing. They are pretty secure but not enough so you would want traffic brushing against them. I'm the only person who regularly goes into that closet. I hang four there but you could probably do five and store the batteries and VWs on the same shelves. When I get the time I'll put the chargers and charger bricks on the shelf too. Tanks are stored separately on Scooba Mat(s) on floor of closet. I do charge some batteries while hanging that way. I've been doing it for some time now. As Gordon pointed out, most of the stress comes form additional force on the handle when you accelerate the lifting. The forces on the handles from hanging like that is minimal and steady.

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Last edited by geekgranny on November 9th, 2007, 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gordon » November 8th, 2007, 2:27 pm

geekgranny wrote:No time to find post with pictures right now.
Alice, confusion is creeping in here, as you rush to write your post.
First you say this about hanging the robot:
... I use one of those wire shelf units,... to ... hang them from the bottom part of handle..., whole handle over the wire, underside of Scooba outward facing.
Then you say this about storing its Tank:
...Tanks are stored separately on Scooba Mat(s) on floor of closet.
I therefore interpret those statements to say it is Scooba that gets hung by its Tank-Hinge, and the Tank is not hung at all; hence, its Handle is perfectly happy! :-)
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Empty Scooba

Postby bobnielson » November 8th, 2007, 3:29 pm

You can go dancing with an empty scooba and do all kinds of loop-de-loops, but JUST don't do it with a full scooba!!! Those of us who have a broken latch can verify the most important function the latch has is to latch the tank down so it has a tight fit to the body. If the latch is broken it CAN'T do that anymore and the scooba is just so much junk gathering dust.
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Re: Empty Scooba

Postby Gordon » November 8th, 2007, 6:52 pm

bobnielson wrote:...Those of us who have a broken latch can verify the most important function the latch has is to latch the tank down so it has a tight fit to the body. If the latch is broken it CAN'T do that anymore and the scooba is just so much junk gathering dust.
You got that right Bob!

Here comes Gordon, with keen-edged razor, to 'split some more hairs'!

When people wish to talk about something, i.e., *communicate*, it is beneficial for them to use a common language, and to apply uniform names for items being discussed. At this instant I see that is not happening, because your quotation above talks about a "broken latch", while the topic of this thread is "Handle of Scooba Tank ???". It is the Tank Handle's duress, and that of its hinge-pins, that I have been referring to in earlier posts, not any stressing of the Latch.

Perhaps you have been thinking that the "Latch" and "Handle" are one and the same(?). That is not the case; and is easily seen by viewing exposed surfaces of those two parts.

As I look at the group of parts that compose a Scooba-5900's Handle & Latch Assembly, I see (internal viewing required here) the following piece-parts: Handle, Latch, Mounting/Support-Bracket, three each leaf-springs, two each hinge-pins, and a screw (to secure the Handle-Return Spring to the Bracket).

If the Handle on a 5900's (probably 5800 too) Tank happens to break away from its Mounting Bracket, the Tank *Latch* will not be perturbed; it will still function. Thus, it is feasible to latch the wounded Tank to the robot and do cleaning while a replacement Tank is en route. The user would simply lack the easy latch-release operation, which protruding features on the underside of the Handle provide; but, *that* would be very much better than having 'so much junk gathering dust'.
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BREAKING NEWS!!! Literally.

Postby Gordon » November 9th, 2007, 2:43 am

BREAKING NEWS!!! Literally.

Just this afternoon, I closely studied the Scooba-5900 Tank Handle & Latch Assembly to see whether I could dismount its Handle (I was thinking of taking a picture of the assembly with its Handle removed).
This is the assembly I'm talking about:
Image

As I looked for the interior ends of each short axle-shaft (the Handle's axles, or pivot-pins), seeking those ends that I could touch with a pin-punch to drive them outward, I noticed that the shafts did not rotate with the Handle as I deflected it up or down! Instead, the shafts remained motionless while the Handle rotated about them!

The 'cylindrical' ears or mounts, at the upper corners of the Mounting Bracket, which I had previously termed "bearings", are NOT bearings. They may be called "Pivot-Shaft Mounts", or "Stub-Axle Mounts", and are integral features of the Mounting Bracket which supports the Handle and Latch castings. The Handle's Stub-Axles are *pressed* into those mounts. IOW, the diameter of each steel axle is size-controlled to always be slightly larger than the diameter of the hole in the plastic mount. When the Handle is assembled to the Mounting Bracket the two shafts are mechanically forced into the mount-holes (and their inner-ends reach into blind clearance holes [the 'bearings'] formed in the Handle casting)!

That method of metal to plastic assembly stretches the plastic! In mechanical-engineering terms it is "hoop-stress". If those concepts don't mean much to you, think about your expanded girth following a scrumptious Thanksgiving meal with the family. Your belt, or waist-band will be in greater tension than ordinary, IOW: hoop-stress is non-zero and in tension.

So, how does that *tension* relate to BREAKING NEWS? Ans: The added stress is in the cross-sectional area that I used in this post to estimate the load which the ("bearings" then) "Axle-Mounts" might withstand without breaking. This press-fit hoop-stress has now pre-loaded the plastic cylinders, and is using up some large fraction of the previously estimated breaking margin--thats how!!

It is no longer feasible for me to make an off the cuff breaking estimate--too many variables are unknown; it would be a much greater waste of time than the simple calcs were. However, we now have a mechanical scenario that can explain why some of these Handles are popping their mounts. A word to the wise should be sufficient. I may even resort to placing one hand under my Scooba's butt after my other hand has lifted it off the counter via its Handle. :-)
Last edited by Gordon on November 9th, 2007, 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby geekgranny » November 9th, 2007, 11:50 am

Gordon wrote:
geekgranny wrote:No time to find post with pictures right now.
Alice, confusion is creeping in here, as you rush to write your post.
First you say this about hanging the robot:
... I use one of those wire shelf units,... to ... hang them from the bottom part of handle..., whole handle over the wire, underside of Scooba outward facing.
Then you say this about storing its Tank:
...Tanks are stored separately on Scooba Mat(s) on floor of closet.
I therefore interpret those statements to say it is Scooba that gets hung by its Tank-Hinge, and the Tank is not hung at all; hence, its Handle is perfectly happy! :-)


Gordon, Golly Gee Whiz.... :shock: Thanks for pointing that out. I was responding to a question and completely missed that. Yes ... this discussion is about the tank only and its handle and not the main unit.

I don't store the tanks by their handles rather the main body by the silver tank holder.

Thanks Gordon :) for pointing that out as it could be confusing.

gg=alice
Bunch 4xx's(2002 on), 2-530, 2-535, 2-550, 1-570, 1-536, 7 Scoobas, 9 Dirtdogs, QQ-2, 3 Trilobites, 3 Pool Cleaners (vac/pressure/robot), SolarBreeze Pool Skimmer ver. 2 beta, SpotBot, CREATE, ROVIO, FURMANATORS = 1 MASTIFF, 2 LABRADOODLES
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby flipper » March 29th, 2011, 3:31 pm

Hi -I'm new here, but think I may have found an alternative cause for the Scooba handle problem -especially the plastic ones.

I have a 340 that has had it's handle in the "up" position for as long as I've had it (I bought it used), it worked fine and did not seem to be broken, but the handle had to be "up" in order for the tank to latch.

I removed the screws attaching the handle assembly to the tank, and after some gentle jockying around got the assembly to come free. Nothing was broken, but I did notice that the end of the doglegged handle return spring was riding on the very end of the handle tab, in a very slight groove in the plastic tab's top. It looked purposeful, but knowing a little something about industrial assembly, I realized how difficult it would be to train assemblers to install the spring in that tiny groove on the top of the tab and then screw it down. I loosened the spring's holding screw and jiggled the spring until it came out of the groove it had appearently worn for itself in the top of the tab and let it rest on the near side of the tab, where it obviously belonged, and viola -problem fixed.

I suppose someone picking up the Scooba by the handle too forcefully had momentarily flexed the plastic parts enough to allow the return spring to ride up to the top of the tab and get stuck there, eventually wearing a groove to stay in, to act more like a two-position buckling type spring then the simple return type it was meant to be.

Hope this helps some people and prevents them from buying a new tank assembly when the problem is so easily fixed.
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby Gordon » March 29th, 2011, 5:53 pm

flipper wrote:...Hope this helps some people and prevents them from buying a new tank assembly when the problem is so easily fixed.
Great observation, and correction, flipper! I'm afraid most users that run into this problem would be halted by the step following screws removal! The "gentle jockying around" to release the assembly may be too much for them.
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby roombafan56001 » April 1st, 2011, 11:32 am

So, if that isn't a handle, what are supposed to use? It isnt very practical to hold it by the sides... :?
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby piokrza » April 1st, 2011, 12:01 pm

roombafan56001 wrote:So, if that isn't a handle, what are supposed to use? It isnt very practical to hold it by the sides... :?


I saw somewhere (yt video) that it is simply used to carry on Scooba from one place to another :think:
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby vic7767 » April 1st, 2011, 1:06 pm

roombafan56001 wrote:So, if that isn't a handle, what are supposed to use? It isnt very practical to hold it by the sides... :?

The reference and this thread are about the Scooba handle.
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby newmom » May 31st, 2012, 4:56 pm

I found this thread while trying to figure out how to remove a tank release (handle) from one broken tank, to put it on another working tank, that I broke the handle on. I have removed the two screws, but can't seem to get the handle off. Any other tips for the lesser able of us :(
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby Gordon » June 2nd, 2012, 1:03 am

newmom wrote:... I have removed the two screws, but can't seem to get the handle off. Any other tips for the lesser able of us
It has been nearly five years since I removed the Handle/Latch Assembly from a scrapped Tank Asm. Up till yesterday, all I could recall about the process was: it was a bit of a fiddle, requiring force to be applied to pry out the first hinge pin. Nothing about what I did to get one assembly released from the other came forth from my memory!

I have kept those two assemblies apart since then, but close at hand, so I decided to do an assembly trial. I found that putting the two together is less of a 'fiddle' and requires fewer tools than for getting them apart.

Before one tackles this work there are some useful hardware features to know about:

A) There are internal (un-seeable) interfering points between the two assemblies that require some applied force to one (or prying between the two) while attempting movement of it over/around the other.

B) There is a difference between a feature that exists on both sides (left & right "sides, or ends") of the Handle/Latch Asm that can influence ease of assembly, or the reverse operation, simply be choosing which side of the Handle/Latch Asm that you begin your work (following removal of two screws). That "feature" may be called, tab, lug, finger, or tang (possibly others). Here, I choose "tang". You see them in this old image:
Image
They are the rectangular projections (4mm wide x 1.5mm thick) seen pointing upwards (relative to Scooba's Clean Mode orientation) just outboard of the metal pins that serve as hinge pins for both Handle and latch-pawl. The dimension that differs from left-tang to right-tang is height: Scooba's RHS tang is ~2mm taller then its LHS tang!

C) A slight rotation of the Handle/Latch Asm as it is being engaged to the Tank Sub-asm is useful for hooking the right-side feature of (B) into a cavity in the Handle/Latch Asm (that has been formed to accept the Handle/Latch Asm's feature).

Bear in mind that my experience is with the Scooba 5900's metal handled Tank asm. IOW, Many, more recent production Tank Asms were built with plastic Handles (fitted to the Handle/Latch Asm) and they may have mechanical differences that invalidate the use of what I say here.

To show the disassembly and/or assembly steps most clearly really requires a video presentation. Unfortunately, I am not well equipped to make a video. In addition, I must minimize the amount of time I spend writing this post. Therefore, treat the following as a couple of cursory procedures. Hopefully, they will suffice.

Since you want to REMOVE a Handle/Latch Asm, I will start with that procedure, and assume the two retaining screws have been removed.

====== Removal of Scooba's Handle/Latch Asm from Tank Asm ======

1) Prepare aids (you may hold off doing either (a) or (b) until a need becomes obvious):
    a) A small block of wood, 20mm x 18mm x 60mm, to be jammed between the Handle and Tank seemed to be helpful.
    b) A smaller block of wood, 25 to 40mm wide x 4mm thick x 50mm, or more in length (used to hold the Latch Pawl maximally retracted) seemed to be helpful.
    c) Select a couple flat-bladed screwdrivers available for use as light duty pry bars. The blade thickness should range from: 1mm to 2mm with wedge-shape of increasing thickness towards the handle.
2) Shift your attention to the LHS (Scooba's LHS) of the Handle/Latch Asm. (this side has the shorter tang, hence it should be easier to disengage from the Tank casting than the longer tang).

3) Reorient the Tank so you may examine the LHS gap, shown in this image:
LHS-gap4wedging.jpg
...showing a bit of the forward face of Tank Asm (light color) and a bit of the (blue) Handle/Latch's LHS hinge area. Trial fit screwdriver tips to find one that fits into the gap. If it does, skip to the next step, but if the gap is too small, try rotating the entire Handle/Latch Asm (about its hinge axis) by pushing inward on the latch-pawl, followed by pushing downward (Clean-Mode orientation) on the Handle, back and forth a few times while attempting to enlarge the gap. If that makes the gap large enough to fit the driver's blade, then go to the next step. Otherwise, search for a thinner-blade screwdriver and repeat this step.

4) Once a flat-bladed wedge can be fit into the gap, orient the long axis of the driver to be approximately parallel to the Handle/Latch's hinge line, and push it along the gap as shown here:
LHS-wedging.jpg
Push as far as possible into the gap, wedging it apart, then, put fingers behind the latch-pawl and pull it away from the Tank in an attempt to further widen the gap. That pulling force should also result in a small rotary motion. Relax & repeat numerous times, until the thickest driver blade will fit.

5) Repeat (4) using the thicker blade. Every time the displacement of the Handle/Latch Asm reaches maximum extension, examine the exposed portion of the LHS-tang. Notice whether more and more of the Tang's length is being seen. The assemblies may very well have separated by this stage, but, if not, and the amount of exposed LHS-tang is not increasing, it might be worth testing the utility of the (1-a, -b) wooden-block aids.

6) If this step is to be done, you should first, insert the thin block of wood, (1-b), between the latch-pawl and the Frame (or "Mounting Bracket") of the Handle/Latch Asm. With that block in place, the pawl will be pushed rearward to its maximum possible release-travel. Then, lift the Handle and insert the other block to hold the Handle 'lifted' by quite a bit. Repeat the driver-wedging, and rotary operations while holding the wedge fully inserted. Disengagement should occur.

====== Assembly of Scooba's Handle/Latch Asm to the Tank Asm ======

1) Shift your attention to the RHS (Scooba's RHS) of Scooba, and of the Handle/Latch Asm. (this side has the longer tang, hence it should be inserted into the Tank casting first).

2) Place the Handle/Latch Asm onto the Tank by translating the assembly into the Tank Top's Handle-well as you move the assembly from in front of the Tank to an almost normal position (but, not quite "normal" as the lateral, left/right, hinge-pin extensions will bump against the Tank and prevent further movement aft).

3) Engage the RHS-tang under the Tank casting by: raising the left end a couple cm (and moving that end forward of the Tank by a couple cm), coupled with a little rotary motion of the Handle/Latch Asm as you guide its RHS tang into the Tank's cavity (or socket) and ending with a return of the LH end to touching the Tank, and applying lifting force to seat the RH-tang. Little force is needed to engage & seat the RH-tang with the Tank and to seat the RH hinge-pin into its U-shaped receptacle.

4) As you now direct attention to the LHS to complete its engagement, there should be little incentive for the registration just attained to fall loose, but keep an eye on it, and re-seat it as needed.

5) At this stage, the relationship of LHS-tang and Tank Asm may be as seen in this image
LHS_tangReady2Engage.jpg
We see its tang can't raise up (where it needs to go) because it is butted against a Tank member, and by simply pushing aft on the Handle/Latch Asm, you find its movement deeper into the Tank Asm (where it needs to go) is blocked by some unseen item, you may find that by shifting horizontal force application from points on the Frame of the Handle/Latch Asm down onto the latch pawl, the blockage will be released to permit a little (between one & two mm) travel to its rear. Once there, grasp the Handle/Latch Asm and rotate it in the direction that tilts the tip of the tang to the rear, thus allowing it to proceed into its Top Cover cavity.

6) Install the two retaining screws and you are ready to test the Handle/Latch Asm.
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby newmom » June 2nd, 2012, 9:49 am

Let me just say, I can't believe how much you know and how kind it is of you to take this time. So, thanks very much. I will give this a try, later today.
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Re: Handle of Scooba Tank ???

Postby TFog3000 » December 13th, 2017, 12:55 pm

I know this is a very old post, but I came across it when I was searching for a handle for my Scooba 390. If anyone else is in the same situation as me, comes across this post, and has access to a 3D printer, the stl file to print a new handle is now at:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2711346
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