Theo wrote:So, if I (actually, You) conclude, up to now, there is no competitor, maybe in the future.
Theo wrote:What about comparison to hand cleaning ? Is it the same/better/worser ?
Theo wrote:May you suggest me sources to purchase it somewhere ? I live in Israel, it's rather expensive here. I need to take in account shipping and customs costs.
Theo wrote:One more thing: what about wet cleaning robot ? Is there any worth model, which job is equal to human cleaning ? As I read about Scooba, for instance, people are not satisfied at all. Japanese market ?
robocleaner wrote:Theo wrote:So, if I (actually, You) conclude, up to now, there is no competitor, maybe in the future.
In my view, no, there is no current competitor. But you will find many on the Roomba and Neato forums that differ strongly in their opinion - especially if they've chanced upon a good, reliable one. Similarly, you'll even find enthusiastic users of even the cheapest, non-branded cleaners that work well for their owners, but are by comparison very basic and technically challenged. Only you can decide what's right for you.
djos wrote:When it comes to Robots that can clean an entire house properly by themselves the Neato has no equal...
robocleaner wrote:djos wrote:When it comes to Robots that can clean an entire house properly by themselves the Neato has no equal...
I'm reading user reports on the Neato forums that the latest Neato models with FW3.0 - even with 3 recharges and 3 outings - has no hope of covering their house... in some cases, no more than just one room at a time. It's a shame that Neato seem to fix one problem and introduce a whole raft of others... it really is a crap-shoot as to whether you get a good one, which from your various posts, yours evidently is.
robocleaner wrote:Also, don't forget that warranty outside the US is not so generous or compliant - many overseas buyers have been stuffed with imported units that Neato CS won't repair or replace, so relying on free replacements indefinitely until you hopefully get a good one often isn't an option for those outside America.
robocleaner wrote:But the RC3000 has no problem covering an entire house - as both mine do - thoroughly. It just does take a lot more time. But it's so quiet - especially compared to a Neato - I have no problem working or even watching TV whilst it's running, even in the same room.
Each to their own!
djos wrote:Yeah the Quality control is a major issue but when they get it right it's an outstanding robo-cleaner. I think there have been some faulty batteries causing the run-time issue, not FW as I know folks with the latest XV-21's and they are flawless. Im in Australia and Neato USA looked after me extreemly well when my first Neato Melted it's bum after a faulty 2.x FW update - They shipped me a new one and told me to keep the old one for spares.
djos wrote:Hehe, Neato is fairly loud (a real vac motor will do that) even with the Pet Brush so we normally run ours just as we leave for work in the morning - I dont know how big your house is, but I know for a fact a Karcher would never clean ours fully. We have 3 Bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a laundry, kitchen & Dining rooms and 2 living area's - Neato cleans every room in the house, every 3 days without missing spots and it does it in the max allowed 3 missions. (Aussie Houses are a lot bigger than the average in the UK and ours is a "smaller" house by Aussie Standards)
djos wrote:Seriously tho, If Karcher made a Robo-cleaner that was as smart as a Neato and as reliable as an RC3000 I would buy it! even if it didnt have the self cleaning as the Karcher engineering is really 1st rate!
djos wrote:EDIT: one more thing, the Neato packs so much debris, so tightly, into it's 600cc bin that there is no way a Karcher style emptying system (via the brush section) could work as it would just jam up - myself and a couple of others here were playing with an idea for a top emptying system a while back that some might find amusing. If Karcher did make a smarter, better equipped robo-vac it might have to adopt something like this (or just different to current method):
grapedrink wrote:To me, that's not only entirely unacceptable quality control, but its also very dangerous. Especially with things melting? Not only is that an indicator of cutting corners in engineering design, but its also says a lot about the longevity of such a device (i.e. fatal design flaws). You may find even with a 'good one' things will start falling apart much, much sooner than an RC3000.
grapedrink wrote:The Neato is based on a high power vaccum - obviously powerful and effective BUT much louder (which means you almost always have to have no one at home unless you want to be driven crazy). This to me is not practical for a robotic, autonomous home cleaner. You want a cleaner that goes about its job with the least amount of annoyance or disruption of everyday home life (your house is your place of peace, relaxation and quiet). This is what the Karcher 3000 achieves. Due to the nature of the Neato and its "real vac motor", that simply says to me, short lifespan. I would much prefer quiet, efficient and effective cleaning in a more sleek albeit slower cleaning device.
grapedrink wrote:Depending on the lay-out of your house, the Karcher could capably cover the rooms you mentioned with ease. Our house is a very open layout, its two storey but the lower storey contains kitchen, dining area, bathroom, lounge room, 2 bedrooms, study and front hallway. The Karcher covers all of these rooms with no issues. We simply close doors of rooms we don't want it to go.
grapedrink wrote:I don't believe the Neato is any smarter than a Karcher. It does the same job, but simply quicker and in a louder fashion. Obviously the Karcher lacks the side brushes and can't cover corners and things like that. But for a general layout of a room, it cleans exceptionally well and is "smarter" in the sense that it can adjust its cleaning pattern and power on the fly. It also navigates foreign objects, rough terrain and other obstacles better than any other robot cleaner.
grapedrink wrote:To give you an idea how well the Karcher packs rubbish into its filter bags. I have had my Karcher for one year. In one year, I have changed my filter bags once. Yes once. Its now on its second bag which is almost at capacity. There is no better rubbish depositing system on the market when it comes to robotic vacuum cleaners.
djos wrote:it was a charging bug that caused the overheating, the plastic is non-flamable and Neato looked after everyone effected superbly so I cant complain - aside from that my 2 units both ran/run perfectly.
djos wrote:I dont mind the noise, having a robot means I can have my house cleaned while we are at work and it's done by the time we get home - we tried running our Roomba while home but found it to be a PITA bumping into us and getting in the way and reverted to running that while at work too.
Frankly the real vac motor in the Neato is going to have 0 impact on lifespan.
djos wrote:Lol, no chance! a snowball has a bigger chance of surviving hell than a karcher has of being able to clean our whole house 3x a week like our Neato does! Our house is 172m2 and long but not very wide.
djos"Maybe smart is the wrong description for Neato but most folk consider any non-mapping robot to be "dumb" because it lacks any form of awareness.[/quote]
Actually the Karcher is very aware. It is able to not only adjust its cleaning speed/power and direction on the fly, it also engages a "Star pattern" manoeuvre for areas that are more dense in how "dirty" they are. End result is that the Karcher has the ability to prepare itself based on the environment it encounters, giving it a greater chance of success.
[quote="grapedrink wrote:You misunderstand me, I wasnt referring to the capacity of the karcher dock bin being limited in size (it's not) - the Karcher actually extracts the debris from the internal bin via the path it got into the bot's internal bin, thru the brush bay. My point was that this prolly wouldnt work if karcher built a robot with a more powerful vacuum system due to the debris being packed in more densely - it would jam on the way out of the robot hence the idea for a top mounted extraction system I linked to.
Theo wrote:Thank you very much - especially to robocleaner - I placed an order on local market - expected to be delivered next week.
a4refillpad wrote:I currently have a Karcher RC3000, a couple of neato robots and a hauzen (samsung). All have their pros and cons and none of them are perfect.
grapedrink wrote:djos wrote:Lol, no chance! a snowball has a bigger chance of surviving hell than a karcher has of being able to clean our whole house 3x a week like our Neato does! Our house is 172m2 and long but not very wide.
That is a very long and narrow house. That said, a Karcher could do the job for sure. There's a lot of rooms, but it appears the rooms are fairly small. The only time my Karcher has not been able to dock is when it gets caught on something. Any other robotic vacuum would face the same issue if the house was not completely cleared of potential traps 3x a week as you say your Neato cleans. Also question, how are you so sure the Neato cleans the entire house and doesn't miss a spot if you're never at home to observe it? Just curious is all haha.
djos wrote:Sorry mate, but based on a4refillpad's experience and that of many others, I would need at least 2 Karchers to clean my house and chances are it still wouldnt be as clean as what it is when my Neato is done!
For all it's flaws (mainly QA), Neato is by far the most thorough and capable Robot Vac on the market by a country mile.