Kärcher Robocleaner RC3000 review

[grapedrink]

Will check if the roller stops on my vacuum tomorrow.

anyone else tried reusing the filter bags?
I emptied one and refitted it back on the base station.

two months later no issues!!

[Theo]

RC3000 vs 4.000 vs others

Can somebody tell me and explain several things regards RC3000 /4.000 :


1.Is there any significant difference between two models ?

2. Why the Company rejects to sell the new one and officially states that the only difference is the color ?

3.How could it possible that the old model exists 10 years without any changes ?

4.Is there any need to buy a new dust bins - from time to time (that means - to spend more money, besides purchase) or there is a possibility to continue to use one built in ?

5.Is it worth to buy this old model or, may be, there is any other competitor which can beat it ?


Thank you very much

[robocleaner]

Karcher admit there is no difference between the RC3000 and RC4000. The white version, badged RC4000, appeared without announcement at a technology show last year... presumably to rekindle some interest in a product which, as you point out, really is quite old now: It's been around since 2003/4 without any apparent changes in features, technology or design. Perhaps that's because - unlike other comparable products on the market - it was designed properly and tested thoroughly in the first place and (from what you can read on many forums) has largely proven to be thoroughly dependable over many years.

No, it doesn't have scheduling, and no it doesn't 'map' a room - to include either now would involve a massive rethink/redesign, and there's no indication that Karcher plan to do that. Yes the RC3000 costs more initially, and yes you have to replace the bin-bags in the base-station from time to time... but these costs are greatly outweighed by the fact that you're not having to empty, clean or repair it almost constantly, and, also unlike most others, it's extremely unlikely you'll need to replace it either within just a few years. No robotic cleaner is perfect, but in my view the RC3000 remains the most autonomous and reliable... and I'd buy another without hesitation in preference to any other robotic cleaner currently out there.

Having said that, when Neato finally get their product sorted out, I'd buy one - it's technically an ambitious design being made and sold for little money... so I guess it comes as no surprise to read of constant reliability problems and several subsequent firmware and manufacturing redesigns. It'd be nice to think that - eventually - they'll get it right though.

[Theo]

Thank you very much for your reply. So, if I (actually, You) conclude, up to now, there is no competitor, maybe in the future. What about comparison to hand cleaning ? Is it the same/better/worser ?
What about japanese vehicles ?
May you suggest me sources to purchase it somewhere ? I live in Israel, it's rather expensive here. I need to take in account shipping and customs costs.
One more thing: what about wet cleaning robot ? Is there any worth model, which job is equal to human cleaning ? As I read about Scooba, for instance, people are not satisfied at all. Japanese market ?

Thank you very much

[mfortuna]

There are a lot of satisfied Scooba and Mint (for lighter cleaning) owners on the RR forums.

[robocleaner]

So, if I (actually, You) conclude, up to now, there is no competitor, maybe in the future.

In my view, no, there is no current competitor. But you will find many on the Roomba and Neato forums that differ strongly in their opinion - especially if they've chanced upon a good, reliable one. Similarly, you'll even find enthusiastic users of even the cheapest, non-branded cleaners that work well for their owners, but are by comparison very basic and technically challenged. Only you can decide what's right for you.

What about comparison to hand cleaning ? Is it the same/better/worser ?

That depends upon the ability of your robot and your environment (carpets or hard wood/tiled floors, the amount of clutter/furnishings, pets that shed lots of hair etc) and the standards of cleanliness you expect. Some robots work better in different environments with different floor coverings - rugs and carpets pose problems for some, clutter and pet hair is a particular problem for others. The Karcher isn't prone to any real problem with any of these issues. Some owners use their robots to perform regular cleaning and then augment that with a good manual clean periodically with a traditional vacuum cleaner. Personally, I rely entirely on my two RC3000's, and to hell with the rest!

May you suggest me sources to purchase it somewhere ? I live in Israel, it's rather expensive here. I need to take in account shipping and customs costs.

Germany is the home market for Karcher and that is generally where the best deals are to be found (German ebay is a good start). There are many on this forum that have imported RC3000's direct from Germany - to Australia, America, and Russia for example - and too had to consider import duties, warranty issues, and even differing voltage considerations. Fortunately, the RC3000 is probably the most reliable of all the robots from a warranty standpoint.

One more thing: what about wet cleaning robot ? Is there any worth model, which job is equal to human cleaning ? As I read about Scooba, for instance, people are not satisfied at all. Japanese market ?

As Mike says, there are many enthusiastic Scooba users here, and of the thousands of Scoobas sold worldwide, of course you'll find a minority who have experienced issues and problems - and these are the individuals who tend to be the most vocal on the forums.

When products work well, users tend not to comment much on forums, and that is why I think there tends not to be too much written about Karchers (it has been around a very long time now, and in all this time there's still very very little adverse comment). As for the Japanese market... I have no idea.

Hope that helps.

[djos]

So, if I (actually, You) conclude, up to now, there is no competitor, maybe in the future.

In my view, no, there is no current competitor. But you will find many on the Roomba and Neato forums that differ strongly in their opinion - especially if they've chanced upon a good, reliable one. Similarly, you'll even find enthusiastic users of even the cheapest, non-branded cleaners that work well for their owners, but are by comparison very basic and technically challenged. Only you can decide what's right for you.

The Karcher is a very solid unit but the only area's it has no competition is in the self emptying and reliability stakes!

When it comes to Robots that can clean an entire house properly by themselves the Neato has no equal - the caveat being that it may take a few goes to get one that works 100%, when you do tho the pet-brush equipped Neato's clean demonstrably better than any other robot on the market.

[robocleaner]

When it comes to Robots that can clean an entire house properly by themselves the Neato has no equal...

I'm reading user reports on the Neato forums that the latest Neato models with FW3.0 - even with 3 recharges and 3 outings - has no hope of covering their house... in some cases, no more than just one room at a time. It's a shame that Neato seem to fix one problem and introduce a whole raft of others... it really is a crap-shoot as to whether you get a good one, which from your various posts, yours evidently is.

Also, don't forget that warranty outside the US is not so generous or compliant - many overseas buyers have been stuffed with imported units that Neato CS won't repair or replace, so relying on free replacements indefinitely until you hopefully get a good one often isn't an option for those outside America.

But the RC3000 has no problem covering an entire house - as both mine do - thoroughly. It just does take a lot more time. But it's so quiet - especially compared to a Neato - I have no problem working or even watching TV whilst it's running, even in the same room.

Each to their own!

[djos]

When it comes to Robots that can clean an entire house properly by themselves the Neato has no equal...

I'm reading user reports on the Neato forums that the latest Neato models with FW3.0 - even with 3 recharges and 3 outings - has no hope of covering their house... in some cases, no more than just one room at a time. It's a shame that Neato seem to fix one problem and introduce a whole raft of others... it really is a crap-shoot as to whether you get a good one, which from your various posts, yours evidently is.

Yeah the Quality control is a major issue but when they get it right it's an outstanding robo-cleaner. I think there have been some faulty batteries causing the run-time issue, not FW as I know folks with the latest XV-21's and they are flawless.

Also, don't forget that warranty outside the US is not so generous or compliant - many overseas buyers have been stuffed with imported units that Neato CS won't repair or replace, so relying on free replacements indefinitely until you hopefully get a good one often isn't an option for those outside America.

Im in Australia and Neato USA looked after me extreemly well when my first Neato Melted it's bum after a faulty 2.x FW update - They shipped me a new one and told me to keep the old one for spares.

But the RC3000 has no problem covering an entire house - as both mine do - thoroughly. It just does take a lot more time. But it's so quiet - especially compared to a Neato - I have no problem working or even watching TV whilst it's running, even in the same room.

Each to their own!

Hehe, Neato is fairly loud (a real vac motor will do that) even with the Pet Brush so we normally run ours just as we leave for work in the morning - I dont know how big your house is, but I know for a fact a Karcher would never clean ours fully. We have 3 Bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a laundry, kitchen & Dining rooms and 2 living area's - Neato cleans every room in the house, every 3 days without missing spots and it does it in the max allowed 3 missions. (Aussie Houses are a lot bigger than the average in the UK and ours is a "smaller" house by Aussie Standards)

Indeed.

Seriously tho, If Karcher made a Robo-cleaner that was as smart as a Neato and as reliable as an RC3000 I would buy it! even if it didnt have the self cleaning as the Karcher engineering is really 1st rate!

EDIT: one more thing, the Neato packs so much debris, so tightly, into it's 600cc bin that there is no way a Karcher style emptying system (via the brush section) could work as it would just jam up - myself and a couple of others here were playing with an idea for a top emptying system a while back that some might find amusing. If Karcher did make a smarter, better equipped robo-vac it might have to adopt something like this (or just different to current method):

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=15464&start=20

[grapedrink]

Yeah the Quality control is a major issue but when they get it right it's an outstanding robo-cleaner. I think there have been some faulty batteries causing the run-time issue, not FW as I know folks with the latest XV-21's and they are flawless. Im in Australia and Neato USA looked after me extreemly well when my first Neato Melted it's bum after a faulty 2.x FW update - They shipped me a new one and told me to keep the old one for spares.

To me, that's not only entirely unacceptable quality control, but its also very dangerous. Especially with things melting? Not only is that an indicator of cutting corners in engineering design, but its also says a lot about the longevity of such a device (i.e. fatal design flaws). You may find even with a 'good one' things will start falling apart much, much sooner than an RC3000.

Hehe, Neato is fairly loud (a real vac motor will do that) even with the Pet Brush so we normally run ours just as we leave for work in the morning - I dont know how big your house is, but I know for a fact a Karcher would never clean ours fully. We have 3 Bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, a laundry, kitchen & Dining rooms and 2 living area's - Neato cleans every room in the house, every 3 days without missing spots and it does it in the max allowed 3 missions. (Aussie Houses are a lot bigger than the average in the UK and ours is a "smaller" house by Aussie Standards)

The Neato is based on a high power vaccum - obviously powerful and effective BUT much louder (which means you almost always have to have no one at home unless you want to be driven crazy). This to me is not practical for a robotic, autonomous home cleaner. You want a cleaner that goes about its job with the least amount of annoyance or disruption of everyday home life (your house is your place of peace, relaxation and quiet). This is what the Karcher 3000 achieves. Due to the nature of the Neato and its "real vac motor", that simply says to me, short lifespan. I would much prefer quiet, efficient and effective cleaning in a more sleek albeit slower cleaning device.

Depending on the lay-out of your house, the Karcher could capably cover the rooms you mentioned with ease. Our house is a very open layout, its two storey but the lower storey contains kitchen, dining area, bathroom, lounge room, 2 bedrooms, study and front hallway. The Karcher covers all of these rooms with no issues. We simply close doors of rooms we don't want it to go.

Seriously tho, If Karcher made a Robo-cleaner that was as smart as a Neato and as reliable as an RC3000 I would buy it! even if it didnt have the self cleaning as the Karcher engineering is really 1st rate!

I don't believe the Neato is any smarter than a Karcher. It does the same job, but simply quicker and in a louder fashion. Obviously the Karcher lacks the side brushes and can't cover corners and things like that. But for a general layout of a room, it cleans exceptionally well and is "smarter" in the sense that it can adjust its cleaning pattern and power on the fly. It also navigates foreign objects, rough terrain and other obstacles better than any other robot cleaner.

EDIT: one more thing, the Neato packs so much debris, so tightly, into it's 600cc bin that there is no way a Karcher style emptying system (via the brush section) could work as it would just jam up - myself and a couple of others here were playing with an idea for a top emptying system a while back that some might find amusing. If Karcher did make a smarter, better equipped robo-vac it might have to adopt something like this (or just different to current method):

To give you an idea how well the Karcher packs rubbish into its filter bags. I have had my Karcher for one year. In one year, I have changed my filter bags once. Yes once. Its now on its second bag which is almost at capacity. There is no better rubbish depositing system on the market when it comes to robotic vacuum cleaners.

[djos]

To me, that's not only entirely unacceptable quality control, but its also very dangerous. Especially with things melting? Not only is that an indicator of cutting corners in engineering design, but its also says a lot about the longevity of such a device (i.e. fatal design flaws). You may find even with a 'good one' things will start falling apart much, much sooner than an RC3000.

it was a charging bug that caused the overheating, the plastic is non-flamable and Neato looked after everyone effected superbly so I cant complain - aside from that my 2 units both ran/run perfectly.

The Neato is based on a high power vaccum - obviously powerful and effective BUT much louder (which means you almost always have to have no one at home unless you want to be driven crazy). This to me is not practical for a robotic, autonomous home cleaner. You want a cleaner that goes about its job with the least amount of annoyance or disruption of everyday home life (your house is your place of peace, relaxation and quiet). This is what the Karcher 3000 achieves. Due to the nature of the Neato and its "real vac motor", that simply says to me, short lifespan. I would much prefer quiet, efficient and effective cleaning in a more sleek albeit slower cleaning device.

I dont mind the noise, having a robot means I can have my house cleaned while we are at work and it's done by the time we get home - we tried running our Roomba while home but found it to be a PITA bumping into us and getting in the way and reverted to running that while at work too.

Frankly the real vac motor in the Neato is going to have 0 impact on lifespan.

Depending on the lay-out of your house, the Karcher could capably cover the rooms you mentioned with ease. Our house is a very open layout, its two storey but the lower storey contains kitchen, dining area, bathroom, lounge room, 2 bedrooms, study and front hallway. The Karcher covers all of these rooms with no issues. We simply close doors of rooms we don't want it to go.

Lol, no chance! a snowball has a bigger chance of surviving hell than a karcher has of being able to clean our whole house 3x a week like our Neato does! Our house is 172m2 and long but not very wide.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71121999/Floor%20Plan%2002c.png

I don't believe the Neato is any smarter than a Karcher. It does the same job, but simply quicker and in a louder fashion. Obviously the Karcher lacks the side brushes and can't cover corners and things like that. But for a general layout of a room, it cleans exceptionally well and is "smarter" in the sense that it can adjust its cleaning pattern and power on the fly. It also navigates foreign objects, rough terrain and other obstacles better than any other robot cleaner.

Maybe smart is the wrong description for Neato but most folk consider any non-mapping robot to be "dumb" because it lacks any form of awareness.

To give you an idea how well the Karcher packs rubbish into its filter bags. I have had my Karcher for one year. In one year, I have changed my filter bags once. Yes once. Its now on its second bag which is almost at capacity. There is no better rubbish depositing system on the market when it comes to robotic vacuum cleaners.

You misunderstand me, I wasnt referring to the capacity of the karcher dock bin being limited in size (it's not) - the Karcher actually extracts the debris from the internal bin via the path it got into the bot's internal bin, thru the brush bay. My point was that this prolly wouldnt work if karcher built a robot with a more powerful vacuum system due to the debris being packed in more densely - it would jam on the way out of the robot hence the idea for a top mounted extraction system I linked to.

[Theo]

Thank you very much - especially to robocleaner - I placed an order on local market - expected to be delivered next week.

[grapedrink]

it was a charging bug that caused the overheating, the plastic is non-flamable and Neato looked after everyone effected superbly so I cant complain - aside from that my 2 units both ran/run perfectly.

Either way, its a glaring design issue and points to the fact that Neato haven't tested the unit thoroughly, which again, brings into question longevity. If you don't believe me. Click the Index button for these Robot forums, then on the Neato forum and obverse all the threads starting with "Error", "Dead", "Worn Battery", "Stuck wheel problem" etc, etc, etc.

I dont mind the noise, having a robot means I can have my house cleaned while we are at work and it's done by the time we get home - we tried running our Roomba while home but found it to be a PITA bumping into us and getting in the way and reverted to running that while at work too.
Frankly the real vac motor in the Neato is going to have 0 impact on lifespan.

The Karcher can also clean when we're at work, the point is the Karcher can also clean when we're at home

Disagree about the "real vac motor", not even sure what "real vac motor" means, point is, the Karcher RC3000 was released in 2004 and have stood the test of time. There is proven, documented testimonials and reviews from hundreds of Karcher owners facing very little to no issues whatsoever based on the functioning of the robot design. The same cannot be said for the Neato, in fact its the opposite.

Lol, no chance! a snowball has a bigger chance of surviving hell than a karcher has of being able to clean our whole house 3x a week like our Neato does! Our house is 172m2 and long but not very wide.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71121999/Floor%20Plan%2002c.png

That is a very long and narrow house. That said, a Karcher could do the job for sure. There's a lot of rooms, but it appears the rooms are fairly small. The only time my Karcher has not been able to dock is when it gets caught on something. Any other robotic vacuum would face the same issue if the house was not completely cleared of potential traps 3x a week as you say your Neato cleans. Also question, how are you so sure the Neato cleans the entire house and doesn't miss a spot if you're never at home to observe it? Just curious is all haha.

You misunderstand me, I wasnt referring to the capacity of the karcher dock bin being limited in size (it's not) - the Karcher actually extracts the debris from the internal bin via the path it got into the bot's internal bin, thru the brush bay. My point was that this prolly wouldnt work if karcher built a robot with a more powerful vacuum system due to the debris being packed in more densely - it would jam on the way out of the robot hence the idea for a top mounted extraction system I linked to.

I don't see a need for a more powerful vacuum and don't see why Karcher would consider making it more powerful?

[grapedrink]

Thank you very much - especially to robocleaner - I placed an order on local market - expected to be delivered next week.

You will be elated. It is the definition of (almost) maintenance free, autonomous robotic cleaning.
In fact it'll basically just become part of the furniture or another family member/pet

Karcher got it right when they first released it in 2004. That's correct, the cleaner has been out for 8+ years and is still the reigning king of robotic vacuums. I find that truly amazing.

[mfortuna]

It is a great thing that there are so many choices in cleaning robots out there. Many different designs make many different owners happy (or upset). I think based on volume of sales, you are going to see more owners post problems for robots that sell more units. I am sure there are Karcher owners out there that had issues. But maybe the percentage of unhappy owners is lower than other brands.

Bottom line, IMHO, is we want a robot to clean to our liking and be reliable. Hopefully that will become the norm in the future, to the point where a robotic vac is as good as a cheap standard vacuum controlled by a human!

[a4refillpad]

I currently have a Karcher RC3000, a couple of neato robots and a hauzen (samsung). All have their pros and cons and none of them are perfect.

I love the hauzen's remote and side brushes which makes it very convenient to start quick cleans multiple times a day without reaching over to press a button on the robot. I have this based in my kitchen and it's side brushes get (fairly) close to the plinths under my units. Downsides, gets lost occasionally and sometimes misses bits due to low vacuum power.

The Karcher is based in my loft rooms and is absolutely fantastic for it's autonomy and reliability. It's great how it's not fussy about cables and other objects around the place. Is quiet and small, getting into narrow places other robots have little chance of reaching. Self emptying and hardly any maintenance required for this bot! Downsides, no scheduling option (apart from a mod I've created myself) and takes a heck of a long time to fully clean the 3 rooms in my loft. Needs a good 6 hours before it satisfactorily covers everywhere due to it's random nature. Also, not great with edges due to where the brush is located on the bot.

I now have a neato-xv25 and trying to get a vorwerk vr100 working (based on neato tech). Extremely deep cleaning into the carpet and amazingly accurate mapping. After a run on hardwood floors, you really get a sensention of a completely dust free finish and I never get tired of "mow lines" it leaves behind on carpets. The neato does lack the ability to clean edges which I'm hoping the vr100 would resolve but truely fantastic bot. Downsides, very loud, lack of remote, and RPS errors on my previous bot. As others have indicated probably down to quality control issues.

One thing which is not often pointed out is that I have found it easier to "robot proof" rooms for robots which "map" rather than those which run a random pattern. Even though the karcher is less picky most of the time than the other two but due to it's random path and nature, it has taken me a lot of time to find hotspots and "correcting" certain layouts and furniture to prevent the bot getting stuck. With the mapping robot you only need to follow the bot on a couple of runs to spot any problem points.

Obviously everyone has different requirements and opinions, but I thought by sharing some of the above points, it may help people decide. I love them all

[grapedrink]

I currently have a Karcher RC3000, a couple of neato robots and a hauzen (samsung). All have their pros and cons and none of them are perfect.

Agree, but the Karcher is closest to perfect

But yes, each have their pros and cons. I would definitely be able to use scheduling capabilities on my Karcher, but again, I also think its unnecessary electronics (added complexity) to the design of it. I see my robot as my personal cleaner, when I feel I need cleaning I go and switch it on.

Edges seem to be an issue with most of the robotic vacuums. Roomba seems to be quite good at this I believe. I guess its one of those areas where all robots could use improvements.

[djos]

Lol, no chance! a snowball has a bigger chance of surviving hell than a karcher has of being able to clean our whole house 3x a week like our Neato does! Our house is 172m2 and long but not very wide.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71121999/Floor%20Plan%2002c.png

That is a very long and narrow house. That said, a Karcher could do the job for sure. There's a lot of rooms, but it appears the rooms are fairly small. The only time my Karcher has not been able to dock is when it gets caught on something. Any other robotic vacuum would face the same issue if the house was not completely cleared of potential traps 3x a week as you say your Neato cleans. Also question, how are you so sure the Neato cleans the entire house and doesn't miss a spot if you're never at home to observe it? Just curious is all haha.

Sorry mate, but based on a4refillpad's experience and that of many others, I would need at least 2 Karchers to clean my house and chances are it still wouldnt be as clean as what it is when my Neato is done!

For all it's flaws (mainly QA), Neato is by far the most thorough and capable Robot Vac on the market by a country mile.

[grapedrink]

Sorry mate, but based on a4refillpad's experience and that of many others, I would need at least 2 Karchers to clean my house and chances are it still wouldnt be as clean as what it is when my Neato is done!

For all it's flaws (mainly QA), Neato is by far the most thorough and capable Robot Vac on the market by a country mile.

I've used a couples of Roomba and a Karcher. After trying a Karcher I sold all my other robots. There's simply no need for them.

I can say without a doubt that the Karcher would keep your house very clean. Sure it may not get 100% coverage (or so you claim without seeing this), but if you're after 100% coverage (and hence only a single-pass), then you're focusing on coverage more than complete cleaning and autonomous ability and every other aspect that makes the Karcher superior to any other robotic vacuum on the market (self-emptying, quiet, multi-pass, VERY LOW maintenance, superior QA and hence quality of the robot, 5+ year life battery life, gets stuck less than any other robot). I can assure you the multi-pass system may take longer, but it is just as thorough, if not more thorough in some cases and hence doesn't need to clean as often. I run my Karcher on Saturday (4-8 hours) and sometimes Sunday and thats it for entire lower floor for the entire week (keep in mind my lower floor is very similar to yours in terms of layout).

Assuming you have to run your Neato 3 x a week, thats 3 x a week you have to maintain the robot with your own hands. Guess how much I have to maintain my Karcher? Once a month at most (to pull hair out of the rollers). Its set and forget, exactly how an autonomous vacuum robot should be.

Once again, the Karcher has stood the test of time and is seen as the pinnacle of robotic vacuum cleaning for good reason. It is the absolute easiest to operate, has by far the least amount of maintenance, is the quietest to run and cleans just as well as a Roomba or Neato.

[a4refillpad]

It seems that I may have done the opposite of what I was trying to achieve with my post. I think both bots are great and very very different. In fact I only acquired both the karcher and the neato bots after the heavy recommendations from owners here on this forum. So they both have a good fan base. If I were to chose between them I would not be able to hence owning both.
Neato fast (mapping single pass), loud and really beats the dust out of carpets.
Karcher slower (random multipass), super quiet and the closest thing to total autonomy.

I run all my bots every single day and sometimes more (kitchen). Surely we all have to agree they're both great robots?