There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush error

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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby arief » April 16th, 2012, 10:33 pm

Thanks for the advice. I will try this on the weekend and report back. I did try it without the brush once- but with the belt still in place. Did the same thing with the error. So I guess I'll have to take it apart and give the motor a good inspection and clean out.
current robots: Roomba 560, LG roboking,, scooba 380, ambrogioL50 (lawn mower), Karcher RC3000,Neato XV-11
past robots: Samsung VE70V, irobot dirt dog (died)
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby arief » April 21st, 2012, 11:08 am

Just an update. Opened up the neato and cleaned the brush motor. So much hair inside the motor itself :evil:

Now working fine.

Cheers
current robots: Roomba 560, LG roboking,, scooba 380, ambrogioL50 (lawn mower), Karcher RC3000,Neato XV-11
past robots: Samsung VE70V, irobot dirt dog (died)
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby Scott_123 » June 17th, 2012, 8:44 am

I've had a V11 for about 4 months. I constantly had to clean the hair out between the motor and gear. Sometimes it was a very time consuming process getting all the hair out because it becomes packed. If I didn't stay on top of it the battery would wear down quickly. I had many instances where the Neato clock was resetting to 0.

They sent me a new one just last week. I examined the motor and gear area. It is now re-designed. The motor has been moved over slightly and now the gear is right up against the motor. I measured the gap and it's about 1 & 1/2 thousands. There is no way hair is going to get in there now. Additionally; the seal around the brush and belt has neen improved. It's a huge relief to know this has been addressed because I was ready to throw the thing into the closet and go back to a regular vacuum.

I'm a Neato fan again...
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby tmnCA » June 18th, 2012, 11:55 pm

Interesting, I hope the XV-14 has this feature, because I have long hair and it killed many Roomba CHMs... Neato hasn't been running much yet it keeps getting stuck, going in loop patterns and having RPS errors... waiting for Neato to ship a replacement. When it does vacuum it is definitely picking up more on our hard floor than the Roomba did.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby mattww3 » July 1st, 2012, 11:02 pm

Anyone with the hair problems from the Neato-XV11. upgrade to the new pet brush. it works very well. the hair will now collect in the center of the brush rather than making its way towards the gears and motor.

If you run into the loose belt issue with the new brush then insert a simple dime size washer in the right side of the brush where there is extra space that didn't exist before and this will tighten things up appropriately.

Hair was a huge issue for me to the point where I turned off scheduled cleanings and only cleaned when I was paying attention in order to ensure that the brush wasn't sucking up too much hair which was a fail since the longer you go the more hair builds up.

It is worth the additional $50.00 to get your XV-11 working as you expect. Just make sure that you are not surprised by the loose fitting brush and plan on finding a small washer about the thickness of a dime to take up the slack.

I am very happy with Neato now. Before it was a cool novelty that I wanted to rely on. Now I rely on it.

I didn't just get the upgrade and think it was awsome. It's now been in practice for about a month now and it is performing well on daily scheduled clean. I was never able to go this consistently before without fear of burning the motor.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby Osteo » December 9th, 2012, 12:16 pm

Resurrection of old thread as it was quite helpful with ONE CAVEAT. Be sure to pay attention to the two small screws under the dust bin!

I was getting the "stuck brush" error, tried both the original brush and the pet / allergy version and after cleaning the end caps / bushings, it would run for a few minutes and then fail. I remembered this thread, re-read it, saw the horrendous stuff wrapped around the drive wheel for the brush, tried in vain to remove with tweezers and #11 blade, "remembered" that I used to do this kind of work for a living about 20 years ago, found the youtube video of dis-assembly and followed (http://www.robotshop.com/blog/neato-xv- ... vacuum-978) with no trouble getting to the motor and was able to remove a large amount of hair that had gummed up the motor.

On dis-assembly, you'll notice that the two screws under the dust bin (and the 1 screw holding the edge of the bumper over the corner sensor) are different lengths than the vast majority of the rest of the screws. Keep this in mind! I don't know what will happen if you put a wrong screw in the sensor but if you use the too-large general screws beneath the dust bin, you pierce the plastic and end up with 2 holes in the housing that the brush spins in. This was easily filed down and no lasting problems, but this was the only trouble in following the video and we're back up and running! Took about 1/2 an hour total.

If you decide to do this, its not hard, just follow the video and be extra careful in removing the ribbon cable attaching the LCD to the cover as its probably the most easily damaged part.

Thanks to all who post here as I really didn't want to send Nu-Nu back for repair, we've had it for over a year now and its keeping our floors (2 long haired women, 3 indoor cats, and me) clean!
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby lowb35 » December 12th, 2012, 11:47 am

I've had my Neato XV-11 for 13 months (so just out of warranty) and finally got this error due to hair and fur around the drive wheel shaft. I upgraded to the pet/allergy brush about 6 months ago and while more debris tended to congregate toward the middle of the brush, a fair amount was getting onto the drive belt and from there onto the drive wheel. We have 16, yes 16 cats (no we don't hoarde... all are fixed; most came to us from a horse farm that was knocked down for apartments several years back and we adopted out many more than we had to keep) and the fact that the Neato lasted a year before having to do this maintenance is a big deal. Otherwise I was extremely surprised how clean it was inside considering what I ask this bot to do for me on a daily basis! The previous year I killed 4 Roombas, even killing Vic's CHM mod... and the Neato performs like a champ. I'll contact Neato and see if I can get a replacement motor though... nice to see that unlike iRobot (sorry) the motor is not considered a consumable item, and that they apparently made real engineering changes to it to prevent this from happening.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby Stannis » December 20th, 2012, 9:29 am

My Neato gets the "clean brush" error everytime I use it now. Only had it for a couple months. There's tons of hair stuck around the motor that I can't seem to clean out. :(

Let's see what the retailer says, hopefully they'll replace/fix it.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby jboeglin » January 1st, 2013, 1:07 pm

Thank you for the advice on the gear shaft. Sure enough, after numerous cleanings and lubrications, I found the hair wrapped around the gear shaft. What worked best for me was a dental tool. It was long enough and sharp enough to pull the hair loose from the shaft. I then used a needle nose plyers to pull it off the shaft and out. It was unbelieveable, the amount of hair I removed. With the dental tool I didn't need to worry about cutting the belt as would have been the case with a utility knife. My Neato now runs like new.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby ketola » January 5th, 2013, 9:47 am

Been lurking around the forum for a while now whilst considering purchasing a Neato. Finally bought one (XV-15 with the standard silicone brush) last week.

The first run it ran great and collected an amazing amount of dust - even though the apartment was vacuumed only a few days before. The next day the robot was left running on it's on on a scheduled run. It was found stuck on a carpet with a "brush stuck" error. There was nothing visible on the brush apart from a few strands of hair, but the brush saft was rather difficult to rotate. Removing the few hairs didn't solve the problem.

I removed the brush and there was some, but not much, hair stuck at the both ends of the brush. However after removing the silicone bearing mounts I saw this: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pkb8ti2nzkx142o/NgEsDjNKPX

There was some strange residue between the silicone mount and the gear at one end. I could not figure out what it was. It was rather sticky and difficult to clean. Cleaning that didn't solve the problem either. Turned out there was hair on the gear of the motor as well, and it was turning very laboriously. After cleaning it two or three times the vacuum finally resumed it's cleaning.

Like I mentioned our apartment was vacuumed rather thoroughly just a few days before starting to use Neato, so there was relatively little dust (and hair) to begin with. It's hard to fathom how Neato was able to gather so much hair in its gears in less than two hours of running. This really doesn't bode well for our future together.

Cleaning performance is very good indeed, but if I'm going to have to spend 30-60 minutes constantly cleaning up the gears/shaft/motor, it might not be worth my while.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby JEfromCanada » January 5th, 2013, 2:05 pm

Two things:

1) This is not normal. You shouldn't expect this to occur each time you use the Neato.
2) Did you buy the unit new from the distributor? Maybe your vendor sold you a used unit.

If problems persist, call your vendor (or Neato support) and get a new one delivered to you. There's no reason a new unit should be giving you this amount of grief.
Current robots:
Roomba Discovery 4210 (not connected)
Roomba 560 (not connected)
Neato XV-11 SW version 3.1.17844, LDS version 2.6.15295, with Pet Brush and Vic's filter
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby ketola » January 5th, 2013, 2:46 pm

JEfromCanada wrote:Two things:

1) This is not normal. You shouldn't expect this to occur each time you use the Neato.


Based on what I'd read regarding Neato that's my thinking as well.

JEfromCanada wrote:2) Did you buy the unit new from the distributor? Maybe your vendor sold you a used unit.


I bought this new from a distributor, and the unit looked completely unused. I didn't check the brush or the gears before first run, but at least the unit was completely clean, second battery disconnected, and the dirt bin in pristine condition.

The second scheduled run had completed without hitch, so I'll give it a few more runs and see how things develop.

Has anyone else seen anything similar to what I had on the silicone part that holds the "bearing" of the brush? I.e. this:
Image
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby vic7767 » January 5th, 2013, 3:16 pm

ketola wrote:Has anyone else seen anything similar to what I had on the silicone part that holds the "bearing" of the brush?
I have about 7 of the various Neato models and have never seen any of them with the gunk you describe on your Neato Brass bush cups.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby c.mueller » January 5th, 2013, 3:19 pm

I have the same on my new XV-15. This happens only on the side with the belt. Due to the tension of the belt the six small parts inside the brush cap make contact with the rubber part. So this groove is also only on one side of the rubber part.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby ketola » January 5th, 2013, 5:37 pm

c.mueller wrote:I have the same on my new XV-15. This happens only on the side with the belt. Due to the tension of the belt the six small parts inside the brush cap make contact with the rubber part. So this groove is also only on one side of the rubber part.


Mine was/is also on the belt side. I figured it's the probable cause for the goo, but doesn't really explain where it originates from. Residue from the belt itself? The spare brush was clean as a whistle, so what ever the black stuff is it wasn't there to begin with.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby c.mueller » January 5th, 2013, 7:07 pm

The black stuff is molten (thermal destroyed) silicone/rubber due to friction of the contact. There may also be marks on the front of the rubber part, where the ball is inserted.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby glnc222 » January 5th, 2013, 11:51 pm

Due to the tension of the belt the six small parts inside the brush cap make contact with the rubber part. So this groove is also only on one side of the rubber part.

It may not be abnormal belt tension but possibly an off spec shaft length not seating the bushing holder tight to the sides, so the shaft can bend a bit creating excess rubbing inside the hollow gear end. It rubs a bit even when correct. Those nubs are merely for keeping the rubber holder from falling out of the gear when the brush is out of the unit, a sort of snap fit. There were some other threads about that sort of wear with VR100 parts on XV's, and with the plastic pet brushes more often out of spec than the aluminum beater.

Washers can be used to tighten up etc., but I just replaced the whole thing with ball bearings and holders from rubber stoppers not even penetrating the gear. Not exactly what one paid for to the mfg, of course, and suitable only as a hobby. Makes a nice erector set besides cleaning.

The bushing is spherical so it can turn to ease quick removal and installation of the brush for cleaning -- which I never have to do, but apparently is a major need of many customers surrounded by fauna. Makes it vulnerable to not fitting right from small imperfections.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby mype » January 12th, 2013, 5:52 pm

Has anybody open up the brush motor, and does it help to clean the inside of the motor? Can someone pls direct me
to an instruction how to open the motor?
I have cleaned the motorshaft but the problem remain, so i guess it is either a new motor or open it up and clean it.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby vic7767 » January 12th, 2013, 6:43 pm

There is no need to open the motor itself. Just use compressed air to clean it out then use some thermal tape to seal the openings on the outer casing or the motor. Check the bushing on each end of the brush for buildup of debris as well as debris at the back of the bushing holder.
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Re: There are TWO different reasons for the Clean Brush erro

Postby glnc222 » January 12th, 2013, 6:44 pm

anybody open up the brush motor


Haven't seen that motor but the drive wheel motor was described in a post as not very easy:
The brown RPM sensor on the back of the motor was removed by securing the gear and twisting it off the shaft. The electronic wheel sensor was removed using a soldering iron to release the leads one at a time. The back of the casing is crimped in places over the back plate. These crimps were relieved using needle nose pliers. The back plate was removed (this was not simple). The brushes were removed... The motor was reassembled. The backing was reinstalled by gently tapping it into the case with a tap and hammer. I noted that the positioning of the backing in the casing is critical to allow clearance between the rotor and magnets. The backing was aligned by tapping on each side to minimize resistance when turning the gear. The backing was secured by crimping the casing as it was before it was disassembled. The wheel sensor was soldered back into place and the RPM sensor was pressed back on. The motor and wheel housing was assembled.


Vic7767 had a photo somewhere of the gear puller tool to use; or just search that type of tool. But you may not need to work on that end.
Just blowing out the motor with duster can through any openings found might help instead of all this. They aren't made for disassembly, partly since aligned and balanced at the factory. But probably has a reduction gear to the normal 1200rpm speed. A Roomba motor had a screwed on cover over that gear and debris was found. This would be on the opposite end than the problematic brushes and speed sensor. Grease the gears lightly.
Vic is very expert on these motors; check for any services or advice offered there. http://robot-doc.com/
http://vic7767.com/

Vic once experimented with a hair trap foam thing around the drive belt; wonder how that is working.
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