XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

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XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby metfoo » September 30th, 2012, 12:32 pm

I just bought an xv-21 on friday. Its been on the charger for about 36 hours now. I assumed it was the "shipping mode" battery issue, where it needs 24 hours to charge. Well, its been way beyond that. I decide to call Neato today to see if I got a bum unit.

The rep walked me through the basics, and she finally asked me for my dock part number. I have a 910-0054. She said this was the wrong one, and a new one will ship out on Wed because they were doing inventory. Hopefully it ships from their corporate office, as they're not too far from me.

What model charger do other XV-21 owners have? My charger does not plug into my robots jack. I had the black plug on mine.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby mfortuna » September 30th, 2012, 2:51 pm

You are the second person to report this issue although it was unknown as the cause of that user's issue:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16405
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby metfoo » September 30th, 2012, 3:54 pm

mfortuna wrote:You are the second person to report this issue although it was unknown as the cause of that user's issue:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16405


They recently sold on woot, and some users had issues like mine over there. Customer service said it was an issue with the way the batteries shipped. My rep said the issue was with the dock.

http://www.woot.com/forums/viewpost.asp ... ycount=155

Edit: She also asked if an led on the charger was illuminated. I dont have any sort of indicator on my dock or power supply, which i though was weird
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby metfoo » October 2nd, 2012, 6:07 pm

anybody?
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby vic7767 » October 2nd, 2012, 6:27 pm

metfoo wrote:anybody?


Contact Neato CS for a replacement.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby metfoo » October 2nd, 2012, 11:53 pm

i did, its on the way. just wondering about the charger
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby vic7767 » October 3rd, 2012, 12:36 am

Not sure, I've got a 2.6 XV-21 and a 3.0 XV-21 and I swap the charging bases without issue.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby Boomerang » October 3rd, 2012, 9:14 am

I have the XV-21 which I purchased from Amazon. It has the 2.6 System an the 910-0054 Charging Base.
Problem I find is that sometimes it needs to recharge more than once for the same room it vaccums in one shot at others. Should I call Customer Support to replace the Charger?
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby a4refillpad » December 21st, 2012, 8:58 am

Has anyone else been able to confirm that charger/dock has changed for the xv21/25. It does not look like it works with the previous docks for (xv11/15) any more.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby Jubo » December 21st, 2012, 12:32 pm

Yes it is for the newer production. I have some that does not even work with an earlier XV-21.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby a4refillpad » December 21st, 2012, 1:35 pm

Dammit I have a couple of docks which are now defunct. :(
Do you know if it applies to all "new" neatos including xv11/15. So even if I exchanged my xv21 for an original xv15 am I likely to hit the same issue because it is part of a newer production batch?
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby Jubo » December 22nd, 2012, 12:10 am

Yeah damnit, I have more than you :D I don not know about XV-15/25 but I believe it is all accross the models.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby a4refillpad » December 22nd, 2012, 9:27 am

Not great. I know neato should continue to improve their products but I purchased genuine parts, now, a lot of their customers have useless boxes of plastic.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby a4refillpad » December 22nd, 2012, 2:18 pm

Just tried the new PSU in the old dock and it works, so the box is not useless afterall! Now the only problem is sourcing the new PSUs. Cannot find anywhere to buy one....
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby glnc222 » December 22nd, 2012, 3:15 pm

The charge base has complications beyond a typical device charger because of the large open contact plates, with protection against shorting out and what not, accidental contact, safety etc. The previously reported problem of poor vacuum connection with heat build up in the contacts, melting plastic around the back, showed this part was subject to design improvements -- though whether these revisions address that hasn't been reported. Similar charge problems have been reported with cell phones and hand held devices, where the little adapter things have some sort of handshaking with the devices and aren't all compatible with different types. There is a need to detect faulty batteries and what not more complicated than a mere power supply. Battery charging control can be in the device or in the charger. There is also the possibility incompatibility was "planned obsolescence" just for marketing purposes. It took a long time for the cell phone industry to adopt a common standard for most chargers, with the micro usb connector. Still there seems to be some incompatibilities. Different size batteries can need different power supply voltages for optimum charge times and what not.

So nothing unusual in these parts getting revised. The robot cleaner is still a work in progress (adding to the entertainment). caveat emptor
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby a4refillpad » December 22nd, 2012, 4:03 pm

@glnc222, is your information regarding the dock based on fact or just speculation?
For what it's worth, I cannot physically see any design changes in the contacts on the dock regarding the contact plates at all. Obviously I cannot vouch for the ic on the mini pcb inside the dock. Exchanging the PSU allows the new neato to dock without any issues. I've also noticed that the output amperage specified on the new power block is slightly different to the original even though both are specced at 24v. Looks like the new neatos have less draw than previous. Maybe this is an attempt at extending battery life by charging less aggressively? I also cannot see any "v2" docks being sold on the market. How do people know which one they are buying if they want a new one?
It would be useful if neato could make a statement about this and whether or not a psu change is sufficient.
Also, does neato have any compensation/exchange policy for purchased docks or indeed just PSUs if that is all that needs to be changed?
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby glnc222 » December 22nd, 2012, 4:44 pm

didn't make a claim, just pointed out all the possibilities. The PSU is the power brick? (not up on these acronyms)
So they just changed voltages and put your old power bricks in the new bases? Sounds reasonable. Chargers matching devices has long been an annoyance with suppliers of consumer devices.
They could have changed voltages just because of a bargain on supply of that particular brick.
They could also have found the original voltage was not optimally designed. Tweaks. Who knows?
Unfortunately a specific voltage power brick (switching power supply) might only be made for this company's application and be sold only with the entire base -- including the old ones.
iRobot parts tend to be in greater supply because millions of units were sold over ten years. Neato's still new.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby glnc222 » December 22nd, 2012, 5:10 pm

forgot to mention: switching to 24v may be more in line with commonly available, widely used power bricks; I see one listed on the web already. The original 22v model may have been an oddball specific to Neato not easily replaced, so the new charging system could be a welcome improvement for the future. 24v is a nice round figure, twice common 12v car batteries etc., I think long used for various things, even in some cars.
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby a4refillpad » December 22nd, 2012, 7:13 pm

Sorry, I think there's a misunderstanding. The "power brick" is 24v both old and new, just the output amperage is different. The new neato seems to reject it and releases from the dock when it detects the old PSU. In a way quite clever, but also annoying. :x

(by the way PSU meant power supply unit)
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Re: XV-21 wont turn on, new charger model?

Postby glnc222 » December 22nd, 2012, 8:31 pm

Could you post the amp ratings on the PSU labels for the old and new?

By chance observed the way these power supplies work, in many forms, is without internal fuses. When over-loaded or shorted out, they can cut the switching (high frequency oscillator for efficiency) circuit, and reset by unplugging from line supply. So the new Neato's exceed the old brick load limit and shut off. Since Lithium batteries hold larger charges and may charge faster, they could have prepared higher capacity chargers anticipating offering LIthium -- or just need them for Kobold models with Lithium and are standardizing. Or they just find they can tweak up the charge rate and get better mutli-charge cleaning times. Some people are even supplying higher capacity Nickel batteries, so Neato might be preparing for their own if it's so easy, seeking to keep the charge time constant. Endless possibilities, but a list helps explains why such changes can be expected with this kind of tech. It's just not matured yet. They don't see any profit in reporting their details -- or more profit stimulating more discussion as advertisement...
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