Low cleaning time on XV-21

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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby robocleaner » November 21st, 2012, 8:23 pm

vic7767 wrote:As posted by Neato, the XV-21 firmware not only monitors the battery voltage but also the calculated battery capacity to decide when to begin the visit to the charging base. I would suspect that once the XV-21 shuts down the brush motor and if at that point the drive motors were also shut down, you might see 14.2 vdc.

Yes, but to some degree the voltage level/remaining capacity are related; voltage alone is a rough indication of what is left. It does seem to me to be a little OTT to measure capacity on each charge, and then calculate mAh used over time along with measured voltage as it's running to decide when to return to base (and still sometimes get it wrong!)... it really doesn't need to be that complicated, does it?

It does seem from all these discussions complaining about reduced running times - and your trials with increased capacity cells - that Neato have raised the point (remaining capacity in the cells) at which Neato returns to charge. I guess if the current cells are failing in as little as 7 months, sending out free replacement packs under warranty must be costing Neato a fortune; in that sense, shortening running time and thus preserving the life of the pack is probably the sensible thing for Neato to do, although supplying higher capacity packs might be a preferred option for most users.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby vic7767 » November 21st, 2012, 8:32 pm

Ah yes, but, it seems even with the 3.0 firmware, running times are not decreased and the only way to observe the charging firmware changes will be to monitor the USB port and send the "getcharger} command once a minute to gather the charging data curve data and then plot the info.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby robocleaner » November 21st, 2012, 8:39 pm

Blimey, vic - I'll bet even NASA didn't have this much trouble getting the Shuttle into orbit! When Neato finally get it right, I'll finally buy one...
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby vic7767 » November 21st, 2012, 8:52 pm

Yep, lol, but using the power of rr we have been able to help resolve many many battery issues from many vendors.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby soonai » November 23rd, 2012, 4:57 am

i think you have a charger problem. i have just had my neato replaced because the neato refused to recharge. my husband opened the bot and the 4 pin had one faulty pin. i think you will have to contact neato. regards
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby SyRenity » November 23rd, 2012, 3:16 pm

soonai wrote:i think you have a charger problem. i have just had my neato replaced because the neato refused to recharge. my husband opened the bot and the 4 pin had one faulty pin. i think you will have to contact neato. regards


All 8 pins are fine in my case.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby SyRenity » November 23rd, 2012, 3:25 pm

vic7767 wrote:This thread has veered away from the posted topic, here's my attempt at getting back on track. As I reported in another thread my FW 3.0 XV-21 was experiencing short run times (20 minutes) and returning to its dock. I hacked the twin battery packs and replace the cells with 4/3 tabbed 4500 mAH cells. First new run with the hacked packs resulted in a 70 minute run time with a beginning voltage of 16.4 vdc. The reserve battery voltage with the brush running was 13.4 vdc and when the brush motor was shut down the voltage returned to 14.1 vdc on its way to the dock.


In short it seems we will also need to replace the stock batteries in order to reach the declared time of work of 1-1.5 hours. Neato should either update this on their site, or restore back the battery usage in next firmware upgrade.

Otherwise all these complaints will just pile up.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby vic7767 » November 23rd, 2012, 4:05 pm

I also installed some Neato stock battery pairs into the XV-21 and got some nice run times (45 & 50 minute) runs. It would appear that there were some poor performing packs installed in some of the XV-21s. I don't think that firmware version 3.0 shortened run times, at least not in my tests.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby neato » November 23rd, 2012, 4:29 pm

Neato customer support has recently noticed an increase in under-capacity batteries. Some revision 3.0 Neatos had batteries that did not have full capacity.

If a new Neato has a run time less than 40 minutes, customers should contact our Customer Care team 24/7 at (1-877-296-3286) and describe the issue.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby robocleaner » November 23rd, 2012, 7:43 pm

I'm sorry to state the obvious, but isn't this statement...

neato special guest wrote:...Some revision 3.0 Neatos had batteries that did not have full capacity...

a direct contradiction of this statement?

neato customer care wrote:There was definitely not a bad batch of batteries or any bad robots.

Mmmm.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby vic7767 » November 23rd, 2012, 8:41 pm

It would appear that as more Neato owners reported run time issues it became apparent that there were battery issues that were not known earlier and as time passed and more data was gathered Neato shared that knowledge.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby android » November 23rd, 2012, 10:58 pm

Hi,

My neato is bought in the US, but I have since bring it outside the US, will neato be able to send me replacement batteries outside the us since I am having low run time of less then 30mins ?

Thanks
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby ottoangel » November 28th, 2012, 8:05 am

I have bought mine XV-21 from USA and live in Sweden. They will not send me new batteries instead I have to ship them the XV-21 for a new one. The shipping cost seems to be very high so I am trying to find some new batteries first.

android wrote:Hi,

My neato is bought in the US, but I have since bring it outside the US, will neato be able to send me replacement batteries outside the us since I am having low run time of less then 30mins ?

Thanks
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby denodan » December 9th, 2012, 6:02 am

I am wondering if you guys are pressing the new battery option in support on the LCD display. Since it is a new Neato and new battery you may need to do this first, as I have not seen anyone mentioning this.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby spork » December 10th, 2012, 9:34 am

neato wrote:Neato customer support has recently noticed an increase in under-capacity batteries. Some revision 3.0 Neatos had batteries that did not have full capacity.

If a new Neato has a run time less than 40 minutes, customers should contact our Customer Care team 24/7 at (1-877-296-3286) and describe the issue.


I was told 20-25 minutes on carpet when I called tech support and to call back if it becomes any less. I now seem to be getting under 20 min. I decided to buy some extra batteries for myself to test this out. At 20 min a run it wouldn't even come close to finishing my 1240 square foot house. I think its a great product but a huge mistake to go stingy on the batteries.

Here is what I ordered

http://www.amazon.com/Neato-Vacuum-Clea ... +batteries
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby kamiraa » December 11th, 2012, 4:03 am

Well deciding to bump this thread:

Posted on Facebook a question was asked:

"Customer service came back and said the new batteries shipped with the Neato with the new redesign are only meant to last 40 minutes. Is this correct? I've found resources which state 60-75 minutes spec values. "


Neato's response:

"Our customer service team is right. Run time is sometimes shorter than the possible maximums of 60-75 minutes when the Neato is vacuuming on carpet or different kinds of flooring."

Not impressed at all by this. With 40 minutes per recharge, with a cap on 3 max runs, the robot cannot successfully complete the first floor of my house (which is around 1250 sq feet) using ALL 3 RUNS.

It basically is completing around 300-400 feet per run, and running out of juice, and going to recharge. Pretty disappointing . . .
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby denodan » December 11th, 2012, 4:19 am

Well if you put new batteries in Neato, then you have to tell it they are new, else the life will be shorter, so suspect the same will be with a new Neato, tell it the battery is new. seems you guys maybe not doing this tip
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby kamiraa » December 11th, 2012, 4:33 am

denodan wrote:Well if you put new batteries in Neato, then you have to tell it they are new, else the life will be shorter, so suspect the same will be with a new Neato, tell it the battery is new. seems you guys maybe not doing this tip



Today I timed my "good neato" and got 37 minutes with the original batteries. This is a VX-21 3.0 firmware. This thing has had around 10 recharges and still sitting at <40 minutes (mix of carpet and tile).

Like I mentioned earlier, if we are limited to exactly 3 runs, it seems I need three 45-50 minute attempts to complete the entire first floor.

I got new batteries today (older style). I put them in just now, and told the box it has new batteries in the support menus. I will report back tomorrow night of the findings if these older stock of batteries will support longer life.

Wish me luck!
Last edited by kamiraa on December 12th, 2012, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby dpostman » December 11th, 2012, 9:19 am

When I got my XV-14 about 3 weeks ago, I seen that it had the 3.0xxx firmware. I was playing with the menu and hit the installed new batteries menu selection without really meaning to, but it said "thanks" anyway. After a complete full charge, the first time out was just a trial/demo run of about 20 or 30 minutes. I manually stopped it, and set it on its base. The next day, it ran for about an hour. After a dozen runs or so since we got it, I timed it last Sunday, and it ran for 62 minutes, went back to charge, and after a few hours, it took less than 10 minutes to finish up the last little bit that it did not complete. Our first floor is 1100 sq/ft.

Since I was there when it ran last Sunday, I had removed all the obstacles, flipped chairs on tables, picked up kids boots, school bags and other stuff, through the dog outside. So it was quite a bit quicker to clean since it did not have to negotiate all the dining room chairs and breakfast table bar stools, office chairs etc.

Usually, if I don't remove all the obstacles, it requires a full hour of a first run, and about a 30 to 35 minute 2nd run to complete.

dp
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Re: Low cleaning time on XV-21

Postby yakky » December 11th, 2012, 11:26 am

denodan wrote:Well if you put new batteries in Neato, then you have to tell it they are new, else the life will be shorter, so suspect the same will be with a new Neato, tell it the battery is new. seems you guys maybe not doing this tip

seems you missed my post. I did a battery reset and it did nothing.
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