side brushes , your not missing much

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side brushes , your not missing much

Postby denodan » December 6th, 2012, 7:21 pm

I have seen People moaning about Neato having no side Brushes? Well I have a Roomba 530, has a side Brush, but not that impressed with them, as they are only really sitting on the ground, and under no pressure, so don't work that well, or just brush dust further into cracks and corners, so really, your not missing much, because they don't work much and also can get catch.

I am about to get a Neato VX 11, and new here, and all the talk of side brushes missing so what, they don't work to well anyway and the Mod I described above will work much better. Also the side brushes on Roomba are to soft to work well anyway.



Just looking through the forums and there are others also thought about static side brushes, these will work much better then the rotating ones used on Rooma and others, which from experience are a waste of time. or any side brushes now thinking about it, as none will work to well, you still need your upright to get into corners properly, no robot vacuum clean edges very well, as has been said, a robo vacuum will not replace your upright one, but will most of the work, but not all of it like edges. This is were you still need your upright vacuum. also Robot vacuums will not move your furniture only go around it.

To vacuum properly you got to move the furniture, so why worry, or bother with side brushes that don't work anyway.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby tstreete » December 7th, 2012, 10:21 am

I like my Neato much better than my old Roombas (400 series), because its navigation from room to room is effortless, it needs much less maintenance, and other reasons. But in my case I do miss the side brush. I'm a lazy vaccuumer, and for whatever reason the roomba side brush really did a pretty good job with edges (particularly in my kitchen), and I notice the collection of crumbs and dust that accumulates in a very thin line along the edge of the baseboard in places. Not arguing with denodan, just noting that in my own circumstances my experience is different.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby denodan » December 7th, 2012, 3:23 pm

Think this video shows the side brushes, even though they work to some degree, still don't clean the edges all that well, if anything it is blowing the power away, rather then picking it up, and pretty plan, of course the Neato does not get it at all, but the side brushes don't work fully either, which is why they tell you, you still need your upright manual Vacuum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX-NYXbSOxE


I have just got the AeroVac dust bin for my Roomba 530 and leaves the brushes pretty clean, far less maintenance, but getting sick of having to lug it and the base station from room to room. The Neato I feel has been said, goes from room to room then back to base station, but does a good job of cleaning, and maybe a good supplement to the Neato.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby BravoRomeo » December 7th, 2012, 3:55 pm

I have a Roomba 530, Neato XV-21, and Mint Plus. The latter two are new members of the house cleaning staff, under the direction of two cats.

Roomba 530 with AeroVac bin has the three-arm side brush, and that does well for sweeping certain kinds of debris into the sweeper path... things like spilled coffee grounds (oops, missed the compost bin, again). Some stuff that really light or just the right density, will get flung too far, but Roomba will probably pick it up eventually with its multiple random passes. Rommba's side brush was hit-or-miss on corners. The previous model I had with the two-arm side brush was made of a poorly chosen polymer for the brush arms. Soon after purchase, the brush arms were getting work-hardened and would break off. Fortunately, Costco/iRobot was great about sending out letters and free brush upgrades. The 530 is my third Roomba. It's not bad... just a bit noisy, and bonks around a lot. The exhaust skims the floor, which kicks up a lot of dust and fur into the air. I do like how it usually slows down before touching furniture, though not always (thin chair legs). Cleaning the CHM is better on the AeroVac bin, but it still is a pain, sometimes required mid-cleaning as the sweeper bars bog down with hair in the axels.

Neato doesn't have the side sweeper (at least in the US), but I do like the much improved suction and a single real beater bar that doesn't get tangled or bogged down with debris. The unit follows the wall, and lighter stuff, like dust bunnies and cat hair will get sucked in from the side. Heavier stuff, like spilled coffee grounds, no. The improved suction, drastically lower maintenance, and ability to clean my entire 1400 sq ft. bungalow without setting up virtual walls/lighthouses is a solid improvement over Roomba. The exhaust on Neato seems to angle upward slightly. It'll blow out corners like a leaf blower, but generally not kick up a plume of dust behind it like Roomba. I also like the dock - it pressed backwards against it, so less likely to push it around like Roomba sometimes does. When out cleaning the house, the dock has a much slimmer profile against the wall and the power brick is internal.

Just picked up a Mint Plus (BB&B using a 20% off email coupon). It definitely solves the corner problem, even better than a side brush. For light sweeping, it's like going over your floors with a white glove and a tack cloth - so long as you don't have a lot of debris, it'll get what the robo vacuums miss. For damp mopping, I find it quite effective with its patient scrubbing back-and-forth. Initially I tried a disposable Swiffer Wet Cloth, but the fragrance was cloying and overpowering, like cheap cologne... they need to make those in unscented. The included microfiber wet cloth with liquid dispenser solved that problem and cleaned deeper into the texture of my grungy 1980's vinyl floor. It actually did a better job than I do, short of getting a bucket of ammonia water and a deck brush out. I think its patient, even scrubbing and use of water only is the key. No residue. I also like how simple the Mint is... the fewest moving parts to do the job effectively is an advantage.

What I'd like to see, if anything, are a few basic improvements and a modular version of the Neato. It needs to protect its laser guidance turret cover better so it doesn't get stuck under certain conditions. The cover sticks up a good 10mm higher than the plane of scanning, sort of like Roomba's IR receiver button that can get stuck as well, though the Roomba has its IR button mounted on the bumper, which helps.

It would be great to have a mode for the Neato that turns off the vacuum/brush and could then use a wiping cloth like Mint. Even better would be a scrolling damp mopping cloth. It could do the whole house and just scroll the cloth slowly to expose new surface as it cleans... perhaps the scrolling would be driven by a gear reduction off the brush motor, since that is also variable speed. Brilliant! The Neato would be almost as quiet as the Mint in wiping mode.

So, side brush? Meh. Sure, if Neato Robotics can get it to work well, otherwise, there are other priorities like protecting the laser guidance turret cover. Hopefully they add some logic for a setting to prevent Neato from climbing up onto things. There's an accelerometer already in there that can very accurately measure tilt. Let me specify "No Climb" to keep it from going up onto things like lamp bases and the curved legs of my antique dining table. It's frustrating to watch it try over and over to climb up my dining room table legs.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby denodan » December 7th, 2012, 4:05 pm

Neato is not the only one to climb things, it is common for my Roomba 530 to climb things also.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby BravoRomeo » December 7th, 2012, 4:24 pm

I the video above, talcum powder was used on black tile. Talc is slippery and sticky, so I wouldn't expect any vacuum or sweeper to do well with it, side brush or not, especially once the talc has coated the wheels and reduced grip. I wonder how Mint would do on that test... Probably better, especially with its corner detailing mode.

Mint definitely doesn't climb, not even over a transition threshold, which comes in handy to contain it to my kitchen.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby gal_vee » December 9th, 2012, 3:16 am

My theory :
If my neato works every day, the dust will not accumulate in the corners...... :P
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby npluis » December 10th, 2012, 5:51 am

Although I like the Neato a lot, especially the way it can clean a whole floor at once, better suction and lower maintenance. I do miss the side brush my Roomba had. The Roomba did a much better job at cleaning my floors. Near the wall, it's stays a mess but also near the table and chairs.

It would actually be the reason why I would not buy (or recommend) a Neato until that has been fixed.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby denodan » December 10th, 2012, 1:55 pm

Easy, not hard to put static bushes on Neato, and may well be better then Roomas side brushes.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby andyraf » December 11th, 2012, 12:34 pm

I've always wondered if Neato could just route part of the air exhaust around the side such that it comes out at as a fairly concentrated stream pointed at a 45 degree angle forward and slightly down. In that way, if the Neato were running near a wall or into a corner, the exhaust would tend to blow any dirt at the edge forward and around into the path of the oncoming brush. This also might not use any more battery power or add any mechanical cost or complexity.
Last edited by andyraf on December 11th, 2012, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby fore » December 11th, 2012, 2:35 pm

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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby glnc222 » December 11th, 2012, 7:16 pm

more specific tests in "adding a rotating side brush",http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16078
They do nothing on carpets. They are also not shaped most effectively, which needs a rim of downward bristles on the perimeter, because of positioning behind the intake on the Neato. If you want one enough, they can be added. Distribution of the VR-100 has also expanded some.

Easy, not hard to put static bushes on Neato, and may well be better then Roomas side brushes.

Any new materials etc. compared to the others reported?
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby denodan » December 12th, 2012, 2:05 am

If you look at your upright Vacuum, it also has static brushes the full length of the cleaning attachment. Having a full length static brush on the Neato bumper would work the same as your vacuum and the can get into the corners much better then side brushes.
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Re: side brushes , your not missing much

Postby npluis » December 12th, 2012, 3:02 am

The problem with this setup is that the neato doesn't hug the wall. So even with a static brush on the bumper it won't get all the beans from the wall. You need something that is wider than the neato. A static brush won't do that since it needs to be a bit flexible and will eventually fall behind .
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