Software version 3.1

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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby glnc222 » January 25th, 2013, 6:19 pm

upgraded from a 2.6 to 3.1 noticed reduced run times?

No programmed run time reduction observed on XV-11, but there are different versions for different main boards now in later XV's, different model no's, so maybe the reduction applies only to newer models with the new chargers etc., already factory equipped with 3.0 level firmware.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby dpostman » January 28th, 2013, 8:42 am

I have an XV-14 from Costco. It had 3.0 on it when I got it. Installed 3.1 last Friday. After upgrade it said that I'ts battery was low and needed a recharge. I chose the new battery option in the Menu and put it back on the charger. Saturday morning, I set Wall-e on his way and lasted for 57minutes before going back to the charger. Of those 57 minutes, the first 30 or so was on short berber type carpeting.

The cleaning strategy seemed much more intelligent and even less random than it was with 3.0. I did not see any issues with it backing up on the walls. But this was only one outing. Will observe further with more outings.

dp
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby dashingemt » January 28th, 2013, 1:31 pm

dpostman wrote:I have an XV-14 from Costco. It had 3.0 on it when I got it. Installed 3.1 last Friday. After upgrade it said that I'ts battery was low and needed a recharge. I chose the new battery option in the Menu and put it back on the charger. Saturday morning, I set Wall-e on his way and lasted for 57minutes before going back to the charger. Of those 57 minutes, the first 30 or so was on short berber type carpeting.

The cleaning strategy seemed much more intelligent and even less random than it was with 3.0. I did not see any issues with it backing up on the walls. But this was only one outing. Will observe further with more outings.

dp


What was your run times before the new fw?
57 is pretty good. I'm still stuck on <40 even after new batteries.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby dpostman » January 28th, 2013, 3:06 pm

I was getting just above 60 minutes before the upgrade, but I always timed the duration when I started wall-e in the kitchen, thus spending most of it's time on hard surface flooring rather than carpeting. This time I carried wall-e over in the living room, where he did all the living room and office first, and both have carpeting. That would explain the shorter run time (Admittedly still very good).
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby a4refillpad » January 29th, 2013, 5:48 pm

glnc222 wrote:
upgraded from a 2.6 to 3.1 noticed reduced run times?

No programmed run time reduction observed on XV-11, but there are different versions for different main boards now in later XV's, different model no's, so maybe the reduction applies only to newer models with the new chargers etc., already factory equipped with 3.0 level firmware.


I've found no difference in run-time before on v3.0 to afterwards on v3.1. This is on a neato xv-25 board rev 64. So it seems the reduced run-times are either battery related or controlled via the board rev rather than main firmware.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby vic7767 » January 29th, 2013, 6:00 pm

Or, the charging firmware in 3.0 remained the same in 3.1.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby a4refillpad » January 29th, 2013, 7:15 pm

vic7767 wrote:Or, the charging firmware in 3.0 remained the same in 3.1.


Hi Vic, thought you said there was no change in timings for a neato upgraded from 2.6 to 3.1? Anyway, maybe I was spoiled with my older neato which gave me 1hr 20min runs. My xv25 still only manages 60mins before needing a charge. Sadly, 3.1 firmware remains the same. So drawing conclusion that this is not firmware related at all but hardware?
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby ilpirata » January 29th, 2013, 7:27 pm

a4refillpad wrote:
vic7767 wrote:Or, the charging firmware in 3.0 remained the same in 3.1.


Hi Vic, thought you said there was no change in timings for a neato upgraded from 2.6 to 3.1? Anyway, maybe I was spoiled with my older neato which gave me 1hr 20min runs. My xv25 still only manages 60mins before needing a charge. Sadly, 3.1 firmware remains the same. So drawing conclusion that this is not firmware related at all but hardware?

I think you should happy with your 60 minutes as most of newer neatos xv-25 run for about 40 minutes.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby a4refillpad » January 29th, 2013, 7:51 pm

problem is, it returns twice to the dock and sometimes even on the 3rd charge barely manages to complete the floor. I find the 2nd and 3rd charges very poorly and only gives around 20mins usable vacuum as it does not fully charge. My older neato only needed to recharge once to complete the floor. On carpet upstairs it is much reduced and close to the 40mins you quoted.
I think neato, wanted to prolong the life of batteries by not fully discharging the batteries before recharging. In effect they have now much reduced the capability of the bot from covering large/complex layouts that take a long time to cover. Shame really, as it renders the bot less useful for some people.
At least I have other bots in my collection that can cope. Others may be a little more frustrated.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby vic7767 » January 29th, 2013, 8:09 pm

a4refillpad wrote:Hi Vic, thought you said there was no change in timings for a neato upgraded from 2.6 to 3.1?
Don't know where I said that.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby a4refillpad » January 29th, 2013, 9:29 pm

:doh: Sorry glnc222 said that not you! My mistake.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby glnc222 » January 29th, 2013, 9:36 pm

Just occurrs the trade off between battery life and run time could be a menu selected option; want more run time, buy batteries more frequently. Bigger house, pay more in upkeep. Balance number of neatos with settings. Maybe too confusing to customers. Becomes more relevant with bigger batteries coming available.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby a4refillpad » January 30th, 2013, 7:37 am

I'm all for user options. Should not need to complicate users who do not want to know and be hidden under an advanced menu under support. Casual users do not need to look in there. In fact having all these extra options would be very useful for support staff to "fix" problems users have. Very similar to my day job in supporting software, the neato is a device that is being deployed to an almost infinitely diverse environment as every single home is different.
If my systems were not "tweak-able" to adapt to different environments then it would make my job almost impossible to support my user-base.
In my other thread "neato 2" I was hoping that neato take on board some of the advice and open out some of these advanced settings. Some of these are merely toggles in software and would need minimal software change to achieve.
current bots: Clebo Arte, Vorwerk VR-100 (now broken :( ), Neato XV-25, Neato XV-12, Roomba 564, Evo Mint 2, Roomba 770, Hauzen VC-RE70V, Samsung SR8980, Karcher RC3000, Robomow RL350 (lawnmower)
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby viper001 » January 30th, 2013, 3:55 pm

I've been running 2 XV-11 with the new 3.1 firmware for almost a week and here is what I have observed so far. The subtle change in the way it corners has created an unexpected consequence in that it now can get hung up in a tight corners where it previously did not. I think it's because it's new cornering logic doesn't take confined spaces into account as it does it's backup maneuver and it can sometimes back up on the base of a lamp or chair leg that it didn't used to before. It's not the end of the world and I have been making small changes in the furniture layout to avoid this problem, pretty much like I did (probably everyone did) when they first got their robot new.

The second thing is I have found a robot with a dead battery just a few inches away from the charger twice since the upgrade. I have new batteries on order for this particular one and for the time being I am writing off this anomaly to the fact that the batteries are probably just ready to be replaced. But it is a little concerning since according to the web site notes this new firmware is supposed to help the robot re-dock when the connection is broken. Maybe that isn't what is going on with this one as it is usually a good 2 or 3 inches away.

The other concerning thing I have noticed is the robot seems to be doing a great job on the outside walls in my kitchen as it now starts on those when it enters. But what I will call an inside wall (which is actually just a large island in the kitchen) it doesn't seem to be getting really near at all. This could be just related to other issues (like paragraph one above) and it's not really getting to fully complete it's mission, but it is a concern.

So far I would advise folks to upgrade, but I would also not be against a future release that continues to refine the behavior of these guys. :)
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby W2rh0und » January 30th, 2013, 8:00 pm

Since it hasn't been discussed here so far I thought I would let you know what happened to my XV-21 when I tried to upgrade from firmware 3.0.

Plugged it in and the Neato updater tool said an update to 3.1 was available for my vaccum (which shipped with 3.0). Started performing the update and it failed leaving the vaccum unresponsive

Tried the updater again and it said the vaccum had invalid firmware and to contact Neato support.

I am new to this so in despair, I shot off a long and sad email to them. However, I read on a separte thread in this forum that simply disconnecting the batteries and plugging them back in will restore the maching (back to 3.0) which I promptly did and success!

The thread I read stated that a Neato CS person advised a customer that 3.0 could not be updated to 3.1 for the XV-21.

So as a warning to all - if you have a Neato XV-21 that shipped with 3.0 then DO NOT update to the 3.1 firmware.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby a4refillpad » January 30th, 2013, 8:17 pm

Pretty sure others have managed to upgrade the xv-21. The xv25 is the same device sold in Europe also with board rev 64 and firmware 3.0. I was initially experiencing the same issues you described and invalid firmware a couple of times too.
I eventually had success upgrading with a macbook rather than my wintel boxes. Others, had similar success by trying different computers or using a USB hub in an attempt to boost the USB port power levels.

The advice that a v3.0 firmware cannot be upgraded to v3.1 is very wrong as I was successful.
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby W2rh0und » January 30th, 2013, 8:31 pm

a4refillpad wrote:Pretty sure others have managed to upgrade the xv-21. The xv25 is the same device sold in Europe also with board rev 64 and firmware 3.0. I was initially experiencing the same issues you described and invalid firmware a couple of times too.
I eventually had success upgrading with a macbook rather than my wintel boxes. Others, had similar success by trying different computers or using a USB hub in an attempt to boost the USB port power levels.

The advice that a v3.0 firmware cannot be upgraded to v3.1 is very wrong as I was successful.


I guess I could very well be wrong as everyone else on this thread seems more technicaly minded than myself.

I was just relaying what I read from user captainstrong on the thread "Anyone else having trouble upgrading to 3.1?" as follows:

captainstrong wrote:whoa whoa.

I bought my xv-21 factory direct in august and it came with 3.0.

I just tried to upgrade and the firmware failed during the installation. The software said hey you have 3.0 you can upgrade to 3.1. I rebooted my comp and tried again but the software said invalid firmware detected.

I then called Neato support for fear I bricked the bot. The woman who answered said just do a battery pull that I'd be fine....she also said my bot doesn't support 3.1! She said that robots with 3.0 aren't ready to be upgraded to 3.1 and the update won't be ready for a few months. She was right, I battery pulled and am back to 3.0 ok.

Anyone with an XV-21 with 3.0 update to 3.1?
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby calcajun » January 30th, 2013, 9:08 pm

Ok, Have XV11 as shown in pic in another thread. The white marks on front bumper are from a door stop mounted on floor in my condo and the other white marks are from another bump it does every run. Had it so long, Over two years I forget if it is XV11 or XV12.

I did the firmware upgrade to 3.1 this am. Neato (Bubba) runs at 9am daily. I had to leave at 9:30 am but watched it's run till 9:30am. Bubba worked flawlessly with the 3.1 upgrade. It did exactly what I wanted to have added. Better corner cleaning. I do have left and right corner turns throughout my condo.

When doing it's run around the perimeter, It hugs the wall more closely and when coming to a corner runs slower. It then lightly bumps the forward wall, and then backs up turning slightly to the right
(front goes right against the wall on a left turn),
then makes the turn to the left and continues it's perimeter run. This now does not leave the small section un cleaned as did before.

When it enters a right turn, it slows, quietly bumps the wall, then backs up doing the slight turn while backing up which cleans the area that would normally be missed on the old turn before 3.1.

It does take the same route for the whole house as it did before which is fine. Except for the better corner cleaning, Exactly what I wanted with this upgrade, Right now I feel that it is at the point where I really don't want for anything specific from another upgrade.

With the brush and filter upgrade, I see the suction is much better and sucks debris from farther the side where it did not before. Do I want a side brush? Shure. That can only help and not hurt, right? Although I will not mod to get this feature.

What is different with 3.1 for me....

It rides the wall closer on the initial perimeter run.

When it comes a few feet from a corner, it slows down which makes the clean time a little longer but cleans corners more thoroughly as i want now. Not an issue. I welcome this.

Everything else is the same.

As I say, I am a lucky owner that has had my Neato for over two years. It has run virtually everyday. Have had no issues except a certain time of year in front a floor to ceiling window which bright sunshine probably was messing with the side sensor. After about a week that stopped.

My sister has a Roomba and a large house and I was the one to have to set up her home for it. I certainly know the difference between Neato and Roomba. Personally for me, I prefer Neato with it's mapping and quicker cleaning than the randomness of a roomba. I am not knocking roomba at all. Roomba would work perfectly for me also. I like the efficiency of the Neato over Roomba. That's my personal preference.

I had a friend with all wood floors buy a Roomba. I set up his house for it and he loves the roomba. In two years his Roomba only got lost twice. He loves it!

Anyway, the main point is I upgraded to 3.1 firmware and Neato is doing exactly what I wanted (added corner cleaning) and is still working perfectly.

Love my Neato! who is named Bubba.

I generally lurk and not post, so this is probably the most you will here from me. I really don't see any great improvement in the older unit that I have, with any further firmware upgrades. Of course if by some miracle a new firmware is created to make my Bubba better, I certainly will welcome it. I just don't see any other improvement to the XV 11 or 12 whichever I have.

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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby glnc222 » March 12th, 2013, 11:30 pm

No Additional Docking Tries

Testing with blocked charging contacts, when Neato could not achieve contact at the base it pulled out and quit without additional docking tries in 3.1. Same old procedure, no improvements. Cases are encountered where it fails to dock at a proper angle and could easily correct with additional tries. New features, but same old flaky procedures, seems to be their style. Works in theory, but some problems with real situations. Well enough to be useful, but not up to the hardware's potential. Maybe when the company is "stabilized" in the CEO's terms. Or it's already too stable...
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Re: Software version 3.1

Postby mailhoarder » March 19th, 2013, 2:43 pm

is it really worth to update from 3.0 to 3.1?
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