My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » July 24th, 2013, 1:13 am

Thanks Vic. The Listing says he only ships to the States anyway (I'm in Australia). However I might contact him and ask the question if i decide I need to replace the whole unit.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby vic7767 » July 24th, 2013, 10:35 am

It you prove that it is the motor then contact me via PM, email, or my website.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » July 24th, 2013, 11:44 pm

Will do. No commands I send the lidar motor do anything. I'll try applying a low dc voltage to the motor again and see if it spins. Are you able to tell me what the resistance across the motor terminals of a healthy motor is?
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby vic7767 » July 25th, 2013, 12:13 am

Resistance measurements may be difficult to obtain depending on the position of the armature. I had one reading of 16.4 ohms but then when turning the shaft the readings vary. The best test is a dc voltage at 5 volts and see if the motor spins. I did use a cell phone battery that is charged to about 4.2 vdc and the Lidar motor spins right up. It may be that your motor is OK but the signal leads from the MCU have issues.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby glnc222 » July 25th, 2013, 1:35 am

Is the motor disconnected from the Neato when testing? The power line is grounded there when not activated.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby vic7767 » July 25th, 2013, 10:21 am

glnc222 wrote:Is the motor disconnected from the Neato when testing? The power line is grounded there when not activated.

Yes, resistance measurements and battery voltage applied were both done with the connector unplugged from the circuit board.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » July 28th, 2013, 2:06 am

Ok so it turned out to be worn or dirty brushes in the LIDAR motor. Was not able to get it to spin up by applying 3.6 volts to the terminals but when I pulled the top off the motor and applied voltage directly to the contacts on the shaft it worked. I tried cleaning the brushes first to no effect and as they appeared to be shorter than they should be,i figured they may be worn. I sacrificed an old portable tape player I had handy and ripped out the motor brushes from it and soldered them in. After a fair bit of mucking around (they are tiny, delicate and bend the wrong way easily) I had the motor spinning. The robot is charging now. It will be ready for a test soon but I don't trust the job I did for any length of time so I'm on the lookout for a replacement motor.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » July 28th, 2013, 2:45 am

Update: James is cleaning the house again :)
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby glnc222 » July 28th, 2013, 12:54 pm

So what was the usable life of the unit that broke (accounting for how often run)? These little motors don't sound very durable. Bigger things with brushes that wear are made with replaceable brushes, but not these toys. ServoCity and RobotShop carry a number of small motors, but nothing seems very standardized for easy replacement.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » July 28th, 2013, 8:37 pm

About 365 days, cleaning every day except for about a month when it was off sick with dud batteries and dead LIDAR motor.

The brushes are very flimsy and embedded in the plastic surround of the "top" of the motor. Probably reasonable easy to mod that plastic surround to allow the future replacing of the brushes with some standarised arrangement if I can find some. Something held on by a tiny screw or nut would be good
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby glnc222 » July 29th, 2013, 1:17 pm

I'd be satisfied with available entire motor replacements. Full size vacuums, at least the expensive ones, are among the most durable appliances. These autonomous vacuums have an inherent problem of having to be as small as the cleaning head on a larger machine, to fit everywhere. Hard to squeeze anything durable into that. Maybe more expensive, or at least slightly larger, motors come in brushless types. One can see a point Vic made somewhere about the value of replacement parts available.
If one could capture a military drone in a butterfly net and steal the expensive motors for vacuums... shades of The Mouse That Roared, Peter Sellers.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » August 3rd, 2013, 8:31 am

What is a normal rotation speed of the LIDAR? I'm getting around 3.9 with the latest brushes but almost all the LDS output to the terminal is errors. Every now and then the speed will read around 6.7 and i get a lot more distance data back to the terminal. My theory is that the LIDAR is spinning too slow and that's why it's behaving erratically during its clean.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby vic7767 » August 3rd, 2013, 10:20 am

The Lidar speed is controlled to maintain 300 RPM.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » August 3rd, 2013, 4:42 pm

So it should read Rotation Speed 5 on the GetLDS output?
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby vic7767 » August 3rd, 2013, 4:54 pm

Yes, ROTATION_SPEED (in Hz, Floating Point),5.00

So 60 Hertz x 5 = 300 rpm
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » August 4th, 2013, 8:10 pm

Ok I think poor connectivity/conductivity (or shear mechanical friction) of my gerry rigged brushes is causing the LIDAR to run too slow. I think I will scrap the idea of repairing the motor. I'm going to try to find a new motor the right size. I tried one from a local electronics shop here and though it was a bit longer than the original I thought I could cut the casing to make it fit but the front wall of the vacumn motor bay protrudes under where the LIDAR motor sits. So that was a fail.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » September 1st, 2013, 11:01 pm

This motor i bought is the perfect size and shape to replace the existing motor. Observing the Neato's behaviour post installation though it still seems to be navigating erratically. I've had it apart that many times though I MAY have screwed up something else

DC 6V 3700RPM 0.1A Electric Small Motor for Massage Machines

http://bit.ly/19b8zeH
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby glnc222 » September 2nd, 2013, 1:53 am

3700 rpm is not 5 rps. The Lidar is presumably a precision instrument. It could well depend on precise speed to measure angles. One sort of test is to put a very detectable point, like a ruler sticking up at the front edge, with no other nearby reflections so it stands out in the data dump. Look for consistent detection at the same angle over multiple scans. A lidar is listed on ebay at $100. You could test the motor in that and then resell it. Might not cover all the international shipping involved.
How do you know that motor is electrically compatible with Neato's drive circuits?

Motor speeds vary under mechanical load from the nominal specification. One way to measure the actual speed without the usual instruments, is film it with a camera, with some visible mark on the drum which can be tracked. Video software such as Microsoft free movie stuff or Youtube editing can show the film frame by frame, which can be interpreted from the frame rate such as 30 or 24 frames per second -- fast enough to see 5 rps, at least gross discrepancies if not precision values.
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby Kinga » September 2nd, 2013, 3:23 am

3700 is presumably the motors maximum speed. The Neato keeps the LIDAR spinning at 5 RPS by pulsing the motor doesn't it?
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Re: My vision was blocked. Please press OKAY (3000)

Postby glnc222 » September 2nd, 2013, 12:45 pm

Yes, if it has some tachometer sensing disk attached to the shaft, or built into it, and a four wire connection. Never looked at that one. Could be inside the drum. I recall rotation speed might be listed in the LDS readouts. Instead of regulating speed, it could just measure it to get angles -- unknown system. Eliminating the original error reported shows some level of repair was reached. There's a thread someone added heat sinks on the MCU for a problem no one else reported. Erratic behavior could have many causes. [edit] the heat problem has a signature I guess, showing up only after running a while.
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