Carpet pattern problem

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Carpet pattern problem

Postby Evert » November 25th, 2014, 2:33 pm

Hi
I emailed neato about a problem with my robot could run on IKEA's patterned carpet. The robot thought that it was about to fall out over an edge, so it refused vacuuming. In neato they did not know how to solved this. But I fixed it by simply taping over neatos two "eyes". So now she works really well. She dust like never before! :)

Sometimes the simple solutions are the best. I post it here, because I can hardly be the only one on earth affected by the combination of IKEA's patterned carpets, and neatos stair protection.

(Note also my nice new "terrain" tires, so as to get a better grip on the carpets ... :)

Image

Regards
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby vic7767 » November 25th, 2014, 2:58 pm

Dark colors and IR cliff sensor issues are very well known at robot reviews. There are several solutions used to defeat the cliff sensor but remember when this type of modification is performed, the robot is no longer able to detect a real cliff condition.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby JEfromCanada » November 30th, 2014, 4:14 am

[deleted] message posted to wrong thread
Last edited by JEfromCanada on December 1st, 2014, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Current robots:
Roomba Discovery 4210 (R.I.P. - Freecycled)
Roomba 560 (retired)
Neato XV-11 SW version 3.1.17844, LDS version 2.6.15295, with Pet Brush and Vic's filter (sold)
Neato Botvac 80 SW version 1.1.97, LDS version 2.6.15295, Board SW version 22753
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby glnc222 » December 1st, 2014, 4:01 am

The opposite of this is using a black material as a substitute for expensive magnetic strips. (Ordinary stick-on magnetic material is not magnetized the same way, useless.) Products sold for this purpose for Roomba has mixed reviews and is expensive.
Most black materials do not absorb infrared, appear black only in visible light, do not signal cliffs to Neato's; I've tested plastic, cloth and duck tape, and fabric.
There are some paints specially made to absorb IR for either stealth purposes or for solar heating collection.
The stealth properties are examined in a military report on camouflage, showing interesting results for popular Krylon paint, with graphs http://www.hyperstealth.com/baseline/
[edit] tested this Krylon Ultra Flat paint, no cliff signal.
The best paint shown is at Amazon, Krylon Ultra-Flat Camouflage http://www.amazon.com/Krylon-K04290000-Camouflage-Technology-11-Ounce/dp/B00176TH8C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417419806&sr=8-1&keywords=krylon+k04290000
(it is also plastic binding like Krylon Fusion, so could be applied to duck tape for example).
It might not even need to be black in visible light for IR purposes -- decorative boundary markers.
[edit] $5.75+shipping at Summit Racing http://www.summitracing.com/parts/shw-4290?seid=srese1&gclid=CMvgo-PTpcICFUkA7AodpWIACw
[edit] In-store only $7.49 O'Reilly Auto Parts http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/KRY0/4290.oap?ck=Search_4290_-1_2442&keyword=4290

Another product, expensive, is specifically made to stealth things scanned by IR detectors
http://www.amazon.com/Laser-Veil-Anti-Stealth-Coasting/dp/B003LL1JUA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417419217&sr=8-1&keywords=veil+anti+laser+stealth+coating
can be used to make cars invisible to laser speedometers...
I have not tested any of these.
Mag srips have some advantage in being heavy and thick to stay in place at least some situations.
Last edited by glnc222 on December 1st, 2014, 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby glnc222 » December 1st, 2014, 4:32 pm

(Note also my nice new "terrain" tires, so as to get a better grip on the carpets ... :)

detail other thread Tire Traction http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=127546#p127546
Order some to test and use the rims for them, save the originals.
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby glnc222 » December 1st, 2014, 8:42 pm

Tested Krylon Ultra Flat Camouflage paint black, no cliff signal. The IR emitter is very close to the floor. Maybe takes some sort of fluffy material with just the right dye. Multiple internal reflections to absorb.
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby ErinAnne » December 12th, 2014, 12:07 am

I believe I've been having this problem, though not with a particularly dark carpet. It seems to occur in areas where my XV-21 has put a distinct groove pattern into the carpet. It then starts an "Oh no, cliff, back up" dance for a little bit and ends up stuck in the corner of a room, bleating, with "please clear my path" on its display.

I've tried:
clear scotch tape, which apparently is pretty IR-transparent, so no behavior change
black electrical tape, which I think is non-reflective and non-transparent in IR, continuously triggered the cliff sensor
white cardstock from a birthday card, also continuously triggered the cliff sensor

By "continuously triggered" I mean that even when the XV-21 was just starting to drive away from the dock, it tried to back away from the imaginary cliff.

What materials are people using to stop the cliff sensor from going off?
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby Lewiy » December 12th, 2014, 3:10 am

ErinAnne wrote:What materials are people using to stop the cliff sensor from going off?


It's time to check the cliff sensors for a faulty. You can use NeatoControl (http://hex.name/_media/programs/neatocontrol.zip). Height value should be 60 - if the unit is on a flat surface. And it will be 150 - over the cliff. In addition to that, it would be useful to look with a magnifying glass on the cliff sensors.
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby shirgal » December 12th, 2014, 7:14 pm

if cliff sensor found as ok, check your brush motor,
if it become weak and heat up neato will start backing up until clear my path is shown on screen,or brush heat up messages :oops: .
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby ErinAnne » December 13th, 2014, 3:37 pm

I didn't have much luck with driving the thing around with NeatoControl--I couldn't switch to the sensors tab while driving. Makes it hard.

However, I set it driving, hoping to get it stuck and then USB up to it and see what was wrong, and noticed it was losing traction in the carpet. I may have been totally wrong about the problem. Strange that it could drive on the carpet for a year and now its wheels are slipping. I'm going to look elsewhere in the forum for traction advice.
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Re: Carpet pattern problem

Postby glnc222 » December 13th, 2014, 7:18 pm

Familiar problem with inexpensive possible solution http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16830. Either the wheels or the carpet change over time.
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