New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby 3kgt » April 15th, 2017, 3:37 am

glnc222 wrote:Hello 3kgt:
The Swedish Samsung site lists only one Powerbot 9040 but shows three dealers in Stockholm.
http://www.samsung.com/se/storelocator/?modelCode=VR20J9040WG/EE&categorySubTypeCode=23040300&latitude=&longitude=
You could ask them what is happening and see what else those dealers carry. This model is on sale at the U.S. website $499, probably in response to new models -- clearance as they say. Continue in the Samsung forum.


THx Gln222
When it comes to Samsung, sadly they dont sell any vacum cleaners on there website. So i dont think that they will be selling them here any soon since demands on Samsung vacums are small. Only few "unknown" websites do sell there vacums. and the modell wich i linked before is sold at a bigger store.
I dont wanna buy a vacum from a nother country since its so expensive, warranty ect.

So i think that for now im stuck with Neato here in Sweden.
One more thing that i saw is that the D5 and Connected is diffrent in Weight and size.
The Connected is slightly more heavy!
Both use 14.4 V.
I think that if the Connected dosent drop in price i will buy the D5. Only big future for me on the connected wich i do want is that you can manually buy the app tell it to clean an area twice or several times. ( choose to cover the area twice for extra cleaning))
Love robot vacums :)
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Tested: Neato XV-14,15, Signature pro & Irobot 521,581, 630,650,780 + 2 Samsung modells + XV-25 + Scooba 230
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » April 15th, 2017, 4:06 am

The original Connected is higher priced because it is a larger bundle of accessories, has an LCD display costing money, as well as an IR remote. Slightly larger area coverage is specified as well, maybe larger battery. They have moved to a more economical package in the D5. Odd it would have software options not found on the latest model. You might ask them about that feature of interest.

Samsung probably relies on its dealers in Sweden for distribution, and the dealer might ship to everywhere in country. Look for a dealer's own web page. Neato Robotics distributes only through dealers including drop shipping marketers who order from the factory for direct shipment to you, and Amazon. The larger Samsung 9000 may not be suitable for your size space you have not mentioned. Samsung uses a different cleaning pattern as well and does not fit into as tight a space (the 7000 will be a little smaller).

The Botvac two cleaning passes feature seems to refer to Spot Cleaning, not the whole room cleaning, and is on both the original Connected and D5. It has two spot sizes, one large 13 feet.

I think the Roomba 980 might do two passes crossing at 90 degrees, not sure about Neato. Their manual is very limited.
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby 3kgt » April 15th, 2017, 3:36 pm

glnc222 wrote:The original Connected is higher priced because it is a larger bundle of accessories, has an LCD display costing money, as well as an IR remote. Slightly larger area coverage is specified as well, maybe larger battery. They have moved to a more economical package in the D5. Odd it would have software options not found on the latest model. You might ask them about that feature of interest.

Samsung probably relies on its dealers in Sweden for distribution, and the dealer might ship to everywhere in country. Look for a dealer's own web page. Neato Robotics distributes only through dealers including drop shipping marketers who order from the factory for direct shipment to you, and Amazon. The larger Samsung 9000 may not be suitable for your size space you have not mentioned. Samsung uses a different cleaning pattern as well and does not fit into as tight a space (the 7000 will be a little smaller).

The Botvac two cleaning passes feature seems to refer to Spot Cleaning, not the whole room cleaning, and is on both the original Connected and D5. It has two spot sizes, one large 13 feet.

I think the Roomba 980 might do two passes crossing at 90 degrees, not sure about Neato. Their manual is very limited.


THx again,
Here its a bit diffrent. All dealers normaly put all products on there sites, and all the sites are presented in a nother site called Price Hunt. If you take a look at Price hunt you will see the top ranking robots in sells/searches here
https://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?&b=520
And if i filter Only Samsung robots you will get but a few avalible, and worst part is that these are mostly sold by "smaller "unknown" dealers wich i personaly dont dare to buy such an expensive product from without havig a fysical store to turn to if things go wrong.
Only VR20H9050 is sold by more known dealers, for the price of the Connected. without the wifi functionality
VR20J9040WG/EE is avalible in only one internet dealer "new/unkown" dealer who got a bad feedback score and for a higher price than Connected.
See here https://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?&b=520#rparams=b=s315597961

So without giving you more headiche (Excuse my lame speeling). Samsung robots are sadly hard to get, wich leaves me with Neato and Irobot. Irobot i dont like at all. Hade several older modells.
But i dont think that its Only spot cleaning mode that cleans twice, do to my understanding from there website you can by wifi map the rom/space to get a dubble cleaning on the connected. And now thanks to you i know that they give a Remote with the Connected as well. Thought it was only remoted by wifi.
PS: I live in an apartment 86 square m, both hard flour and mats. no problem for any bot since its newly build with low obsticales on the flour.
Love robot vacums :)
Today: Neato Botvac 70E
Tested: Neato XV-14,15, Signature pro & Irobot 521,581, 630,650,780 + 2 Samsung modells + XV-25 + Scooba 230
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » April 15th, 2017, 3:42 pm

Roomba 980 faq (manual is skimpy like Neato -- Google "two pass"):
However in some scenarios (e.g. homes with pets), it may take multiple passes to clean up everything. For this reason, you have the option to set Roomba to complete two passes, rather than one.

The default setting is automatic. Roomba intelligently chooses to use two or more passes for a single small room or one pass if cleaning a larger space. This setting can be helpful for those who Roomba in varying sized spaces. When placed in a smaller room, Roomba can choose to do more cleaning passes without concern for battery depletion.


Sounds like some software advances beyond Neato. Samsung's 7000 has a weird "as many passes as possible" until out of fuel, reminiscent of old random Roomba's. Also two passes in spaces taking less than 15 minutes (it always tends to run half an hour wherever).
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » April 15th, 2017, 3:55 pm

I switched to Neato back when the old Roomba's where crude but the new camera guided ones are much more advanced and have a better quality and durability reputation than Neato Robotics. But I do not have data proving Roomba cleans carpet effectively and that is most of the apt., and proved the Powerbot works (but I did have to enhance the bumper to work properly, maybe ok now on the 7000, remains to be seen).

Posts show the Botvac D5 should cover your entire space on a single charge cycle; the new lithium batteries make a difference. Botvac also has a wider intake than Roomba, though both have good area coverage -- from long run time on Roomba.

Especially with Neato build quality a good dealer and warranty is needed when not the DIY engineering, hobbyist crowd. Here the main electronics store Best Buy offers long term service contracts at reasonable prices, with a substantial tech support operation for computers, Geek Squad service.
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » April 15th, 2017, 4:03 pm

"build quality" includes the solid state, camera guidance contra mechanical wear on Neato lidars. There has also been mention of Roomba optical bumper switches, and Samsung has lever action microswitches instead of panel button dome switches.

If not on the Swedish website, Neato Robotics English website has a comparison table for the different models with details of features.
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby 3kgt » April 15th, 2017, 4:11 pm

glnc222 wrote:Roomba 980 faq (manual is skimpy like Neato -- Google "two pass"):
However in some scenarios (e.g. homes with pets), it may take multiple passes to clean up everything. For this reason, you have the option to set Roomba to complete two passes, rather than one.

The default setting is automatic. Roomba intelligently chooses to use two or more passes for a single small room or one pass if cleaning a larger space. This setting can be helpful for those who Roomba in varying sized spaces. When placed in a smaller room, Roomba can choose to do more cleaning passes without concern for battery depletion.


Sounds like some software advances beyond Neato. Samsung's 7000 has a weird "as many passes as possible" until out of fuel, reminiscent of old random Roomba's. Also two passes in spaces taking less than 15 minutes (it always tends to run half an hour wherever).


Just took a new look at the Irobot 900 Series.
It seems that it finaly have stopped moving Zigzag like a crazy dum robot.
But dose it now remember when it where when it resumes after a charge?
The Round shape and smaller brushes still dosent make sense to me + its price is verey expensive!!! The 980 is dubble the price of a D5 lol

Wich bots do you own? Have tested of these (Samsung VR9000, Neato D5, Neato Connected, Irobot 900 Series)
Whats ur favroite?
PS. This is a good comparison video of Neato vs Roomba 980
Navigation is still much better on Neato, but the Dirt sensor is great on Roomba.
Love robot vacums :)
Today: Neato Botvac 70E
Tested: Neato XV-14,15, Signature pro & Irobot 521,581, 630,650,780 + 2 Samsung modells + XV-25 + Scooba 230
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » April 15th, 2017, 4:44 pm

The camera guidance maps the house same as the lidar, using pattern recognition and triangulation on features of the ceilings and maybe walls, corners etc. Possible after ten years of electronics advances since Neato's lidar. Used by Roomba, Dyson and LG besides Samsung -- Neato has to switch at some point, especially with cheaper lidars from Xiaomi. But can they afford it, have enough cash flow for development? Vorwerk is invested in them, owns controlling interest venture capital.

I have an older Powerbot WiFi 9250 with the optical virtual wall boundaries instead of the mag strips adopted last year (the optical system imitating Roomba's is not well refined, explained in technical posts here in Neato and Samsung thread; no surprise abandoned -- lacks beam collimation etc. -- worked with random bots more than guided.)
The WiFi did not result in any software advances being delivered such as new features on the 9350; WiFi of no interest here, personal taste.
I only keep one robot at a time unlike collectors, but have made a study of it since they were not designed to clean carpets. I measure the left over with a full size vac, unlike reviewers tests.
See my Samsung mods in that forum, 9000 thread. I also analyzed the fan motor with a pressure sensor and Arduino. I have posted a number of Neato modifications. See Mods & Repairs index list main forum page.
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby 3kgt » April 15th, 2017, 5:12 pm

glnc222 wrote:The camera guidance maps the house same as the lidar, using pattern recognition and triangulation on features of the ceilings and maybe walls, corners etc. Possible after ten years of electronics advances since Neato's lidar. Used by Roomba, Dyson and LG besides Samsung -- Neato has to switch at some point, especially with cheaper lidars from Xiaomi. But can they afford it, have enough cash flow for development? Vorwerk is invested in them, owns controlling interest venture capital.

I have an older Powerbot WiFi 9250 with the optical virtual wall boundaries instead of the mag strips adopted last year (the optical system imitating Roomba's is not well refined, explained in technical posts here in Neato and Samsung thread; no surprise abandoned -- lacks beam collimation etc. -- worked with random bots more than guided.)
The WiFi did not result in any software advances being delivered such as new features on the 9350; WiFi of no interest here, personal taste.
I only keep one robot at a time unlike collectors, but have made a study of it since they were not designed to clean carpets. I measure the left over with a full size vac, unlike reviewers tests.
See my Samsung mods in that forum, 9000 thread. I also analyzed the fan motor with a pressure sensor and Arduino. I have posted a number of Neato modifications. See Mods & Repairs index list main forum page.


Have read some of ur mods and tests in last year. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
I just finished "fixing" my Botvac again!
This time it was Front Right Bump sensor wich didnt work as it should. Luckly i bought 4 sensors from ebay, and have now changed 2 of them in 4 months. And even changed a new brush bearing wich i alsaw have about 10 of.
Good part about Neato is that i will soon open my own repair shop "lol" :cheers: I have opened upp this robot so many times, that 2 of the screws are now f..ed upp. i clean the inside from time to time, and thanks to the Neato Tool i can see whats working and whats not

To be honest i think the Guidence system and navigation is better on the Neato vs Roomba and older Samsung. Have not tested the New Samsung VR9000 Series, but had an older modell with camera wich i was not so happy with.
The Neato Cleans much smarter, better with bumps than Irobot, comes closeset to walls in comparesion of other bots. Powerfull suction, and almost misses no place to clean in my apartment.
Downside is Hardware faliure, and no Dirt Sensor, bad wheel rubber. And i dont like the Air flow that is directed in the back instead of air flow directed to the roof .
When i read in Swedish reviews i see that people have now a days hardware problems with all the bots. but i think the worst is still Neato when it comes to build quality/parts
But i think that they are pretty easy to repair if you get the parts.
I have opened upp irobots too, but never Samsung. Dont know how easy they are to fix.
LG is intressting too, they have quite a good navigation, but they are too hard to get in Sweden and expensive.

So if u add Dirt detection + better wheel rubber + a talaer side brush like roomba to the Neato and lose the Lidar for a good Camera and maybe a IR sensor in the front like LG + a longer lasting/better battery like Roomba. it would be the perfect robot :lol:
Love robot vacums :)
Today: Neato Botvac 70E
Tested: Neato XV-14,15, Signature pro & Irobot 521,581, 630,650,780 + 2 Samsung modells + XV-25 + Scooba 230
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » April 15th, 2017, 5:22 pm

I upgraded to a high end robot a year or so ago after replacement of wall-to-wall carpet from a pipe break flood, providing excuse to clean the carpet instead of just playing with the robots.
Instead of the useless WiFi, I especially like the washable filter and it even tells me when it is needed. I resorted to DIY filters on Neato using furnace filter material.

I dislike side brushes because they broke off against sharp corners of bookcases and the Neato ones are fragile and wear out. I need no supplies at all for the Samsung -- covers some of the higher unit price.
It also does the entire place in half an hour, short enough to enjoy watching. Over sized for the space, not optimal for everyone.

Remaining issue is how long the expensive, oversize $175 battery will last, but it might go 800 cycles, years yet to go. Only time will tell. Botvac lithium batteries are reasonably priced.
The larger four inch wheels on the Samsung were of interest because of problems with slippery carpets besides deep piles. The smaller 7000 wheels might still be good because of better tread design than Neato. These things are all experimental in some ways.

The Samsung does not do corners as well as the others, is too high to go under some furniture (fixed in the 7000, as well as corners). Does not matter so much on wall-to-wall carpet.

Waiting on Roomba's former designer to succeed with his new company with some interesting innovations.

Build quality -- I don't think the Samsung will need any repairs. I don't see posts about breakdowns, but they are not as old and have fewer owners to provide reports. Yet the company makes electronic components, supplies many for other brands of cell phones, makes TV's etc. so has more resources to do this right.
While they sell all the parts for the robots they are expensive. Neato provides the best diagnostic software to maintain it, but all the electronics are on one board making it expensive to replace, along with the expensive lidar.

[edit] Neato Control program is not from the company -- just an accidental interest by a professional programmer using the product.
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby 3kgt » April 15th, 2017, 5:38 pm

The VR7000 looks promissing..sad part it is now April and still no sales here!
About the Neato parts, luckly for me, there is a good repair shop with very low costs for fixing the Neato. Last time when i fixed the wheel it cost 275 kr about 28$ in total cost. Lidar cost about 600$ they said. Battery for my older botvac cost about 40$ here.
I will be on the lookupp for a Samsung to test again. Hopefully my botvac will work a couple of more months untill VR7000 comes to Swe, or i get a discount on a Connected modell. And now its time 2 sleep with kids waking me upp at 6-6.30 in the morning :cry: :roll:
Love robot vacums :)
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Tested: Neato XV-14,15, Signature pro & Irobot 521,581, 630,650,780 + 2 Samsung modells + XV-25 + Scooba 230
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby michaelm » July 19th, 2017, 11:53 am

Hi

New user and first post here.

Just been reading this thread and it has been rather good.

I am about to purchase a robo cleaner as we do lots of petsitting and a good automatic cleaner i think is a must have. I have just ordered a Neato D5 Connected as an Amazon Warehouse Deal at $385 which i thought it was a good price (still in original packaging apparently). However i am wary of all the hardware failures and also weary of buying used in case i have to claim on warranty - Neato will probably wash their hands of it.

I am prepared to spend up to $600 and i have seen the Samsung R7070 listed at that price on Amazon brand new. Would you recommend that model over the D5? I am not a DIY person so cant see myself opening it up and fixing the D5?

I still have time to cancel my Amazon order and re-purchase either the D5 brand new or maybe the Samsung.

Thanks
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » July 19th, 2017, 2:52 pm

I had just noticed unusual discounts, almost 50 per cent, at Amazon Warehouse Deals on the larger Samsung R9250 $475, greater value than the 7070, unless you want the lower height introduced -- with smaller bin. Surplus of these used or open-box might be from recent buyers more interested in the just released 7000 series; the hardware quality has always seemed superior (being a major supplier of consumer electronics besides the components used to make them -- lot of reputation at stake). A recent user post reports good results on pet hair.

The larger wheels on the 9000's could be an advantage if taking the robot to many different venues possibly furnished with problem carpets limiting to other brands or models.

Apart from build quality problems, the issue with Neato is longer term durability of the mechanical lidar compared to solid state camera newer tech -- also adopted by iRobot, leap frogging Neato. The other lidar bots from Xiaomi have a lot of defective lidar reports. A substantial discount on Neato could compensate.

A lot of the higher prices these days seems to be for WiFi apps (with continuing software development costs) some would say adds little to cleaning performance -- just a desired gimmick.

The warranties on these things (in the U.S. at least) is only one year, and I would not expect Samsung problems in that period (compared to other brands, IMHO). You might be eligible for Square Trade warranties at Warehouse Deals, inquire of them. Best Buy Geek Squad Contracts, or Walmart service contracts can be of interest.
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby michaelm » July 19th, 2017, 3:36 pm

OK - i am interested.

What are the main differences between the 7070 and the 9250? The bigger dustbin is attractive and i am not terribly bothered about under furniture cleaning.

Samsung website says 10 year Warranty on the 9250 - is that accurate and how is that the case if it a warehouse deal? I am just a bit cautious on these deals. Would rather spend the cash on Samsung if it is a case of reliability over neato.

Some Warehouse deals at just over $500 appear to be new. No Square Trade Warranty offered unfortunately
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby michaelm » July 19th, 2017, 4:25 pm

Ordered the 9250 at Nearly new for $502 plus tax....hopefully here before the weekend to allow for testing. Nervous about buying a used hoover...hopefully it was just damaged packaging like the description said!

How good is it on multi room? I mostly have a hard floors downstairs and i dont intend to use it upstairs on the carpet. Easier to run the main Miele upright for that which is a fantastic hoover (the C3 cat and dog white model)
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Re: New Neato Botvac Purchase Help

Postby glnc222 » July 19th, 2017, 4:43 pm

"Nearly new" -- that's a new one... I am a little wary of "refurbished", though even listed on Samsung's own website sometimes, as a principal cost long term is the large batteries with limited lifetimes, and I don't think they include a new one, and how much was it used up?

This should be pursued in the Samsung forum I suppose for any further details. See the recently posted 9250 review there -- on 1500 sq ft house., multi-room.

The 10 year Samsung warranty is just for the fan motor, similar to full size vacuums. Fan motors have never been involved in any robot repair problems however frequent otherwise -- they are usually well made standard industrial parts used for electronics cooling or here, vacuum cleaner makes. The rest has the typical one year warranty on consumer electronics. I forget what Warehouse Deals I have used said about warranties on used items; sometimes open-box item returns are still under mfg warranty for the one year. Most defects are detected within weeks and handled under the generous retail return policy instead of warranty, unless you really want it repaired instead of exchanged or whatever (I used Neato's warranty when bought direct from them with improper packaging damaging the bumper). Electronics tends to either work or not -- except for some known quality issues in Neato manufacture and some Roomba design issues (over-heating charging contacts...).
The Neato wear problems tend to show up after more than a year.

Note certain credit card accounts offer doubling mfg's one year warranties, but probably only on new units.
There are extremely few reports of any defects and warranty repairs on Samsung. The infamous cell phone battery incident is unrelated, for a different tech entirely in batteries. Samsung is a major supplier of lithium batteries for the whole industry and was used by German hobbyists to make Neato battery replacements years ago.

There are a number of even cheaper Samsung models used, from their less powerful models -- which could be adequate on hard floors. Carpets are what take power, why the vacuum cleaner was invented a century ago, and still not reproduced in low power battery robots, at least at practical cost.
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