XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

News and information about the Neato XV-11 Robotic Vacuum. All discussion and troubleshooting questions go here.

XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby Jozer99 » February 7th, 2018, 10:42 pm

I got my hands on a broken XV-21. I'm wondering whether it can be repaired, or if it needs to be scrapped. I also have a working XV-11 that I can use to help debug this.

When I got the robot, the batteries were dead, and plugging the robot in would result only in a dim green power light. Leaving the robot plugged in overnight did not charge the batteries at all. I swapped in my fully charged XV-11 batteries, and got a similar result.

Reading this forum, I found out about the capacitor issue. I ordered and replaced most of the 100uF capacitors on the board with name brand, higher voltage rated caps, including the infamous C10. Once this mod was done, I reassembled, and saw no change in behavior with the (flat) batteries. Installing the XV-11's batteries results in the robot seeming to turn on, the screen backlight turns on, but no image is displayed. The robot does not clean when double tapping the start button, but instead makes an error beep. The robot also refuses to charge.

I then ordered a replacement Blinky mainboard. Installing this in the robot, I get the exact same symptoms as with the original board (after the cap replacement). The robot will turn on with good batteries, but it will not charge. No image is displayed on the screen. Double tapping the start button does not result in the robot starting to clean, instead it beeps.

So what is the problem with my robot? Why do two mainboards have the exact same problem? If the LCD board is somehow the problem, why will it not charge when plugged in or docked? Should I return the second motherboard that I purchased, or can I still use that to repair the robot?

With the original mainboard and good batteries, I connected with the Neato Control app from this forum and downloaded the log. I see a number of things that look like error messages:

1379,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagTimeSlip,3,1,1,0x0000000000000003,0x0000000000000003
1379,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagI2CError,1,0,0,0x0000000000000000,0x0000000000000000
1379,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagLCDOverrun,2,1,1,0x0000000000000002,0x0000000000000002
1379,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagI2CReset,1,1,1,0x0000000000000001,0x0000000000000001
1379,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagI2CErrorPathB,1,1,1,0x0000000000000001,0x0000000000000001

1380,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagLCDOverrun,2,1,1,0x0000000000000002,0x0000000000000002
1380,LS_PinkyErr_eErrFlagI2CReset,1,1,1,0x0000000000000001,0x0000000000000001
1380,LS_STARTUP_TIME,1,1280988551,1280988551,0x000000004c5a5587,0x00000000677eed31
Jozer99
 
Posts: 41
Joined: June 22nd, 2009, 12:31 am

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby glnc222 » February 8th, 2018, 2:43 am

Given the XV-11 mentioned working, it can be used to test the broken robot parts separately. See if the batteries from the XV-21 work in the XV-11 to begin with, and dispense with worn out batteries. When worn out, they lose capacity, may charge and discharge quickly.
Then swap the new system board into the XV-11 to check if it is good. There may be an older version board there but they all work the same on the other parts (old Rev113 Cruz, new Rev64 Binky labels). There is a difference between old and newer docks, with lower power rating on the brick in the newer ones. The old docks cannot charge the newer robots, but the newer docks charge the older robots as well as new -- backwards compatibility. The dock requires detection of the bot connection to safely turn on charging, and the charging circuits can be different. Find out first which version of both bots is involved.

Caution there was an LCD change, with a full pin plug on the newer ones, requiring a matching socket on the system board; older ones have a pinch connector on flat cable end; the board wiring differs, per the repair thread. So swap LCD's along with system boards if needed, and isolate which parts work and do not.

There can also be defective docks.

The LCD's have been known to wear out; another thread here details a cheap way to repair requiring some skill as a technician, replacing the screen component alone on the LCD board.

The charging process can be observed over the USB connection, with the Neato Control program, voltage and current.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby Jozer99 » February 8th, 2018, 7:43 am

Unfortunately, the XV-11 has a different mainboard with different connectors. The XV-21 has a "Binky" mainboard with a wire cable going to the LCD. The XV-11 has a much more complicated (older?) motherboard with a flat ribbon cable based LCD module. Most of the important connectors (power, LCD, etc) look to be different between the two boards.
Jozer99
 
Posts: 41
Joined: June 22nd, 2009, 12:31 am

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby glnc222 » February 8th, 2018, 7:36 pm

I have not seen photos of the cables for the Rev64 Binky newer board, but they may just be in different positions. The power connector has changed a couple of times, and might be patched together. You would have to move the LCD along with the system board.
The system will not run if the LCD is disconnected, so some fault in it might have similar effect. You might need a new LCD or repair it per links in the Mods & Repairs list top of forum.
Motors and sensors can be examined separately over USB.
The Rev64 board upgraded the cpu components with newer versions constantly advancing in that industry. The v3.4 firmware does not run on the old cpu, Rev113 Cruz board. The side jack for charging was also eliminated.
Sensors and motors remained the same.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby Jozer99 » February 8th, 2018, 9:59 pm

Both the XV-11 and XV-21 have external power sockets. I'm not sure the name of the motherboard revision on the XV-11, but it looks like it has some RF shields and a ribbon cable to the LCD board instead of a bunch of twisted pairs.

I've tested the sensors to the best of my ability with Neato Connect and they all appear to work. Does this mean that my only chance it to replace the LCD module? Is there any way to debug it from the error messages I posted above?
Jozer99
 
Posts: 41
Joined: June 22nd, 2009, 12:31 am

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby glnc222 » February 9th, 2018, 2:07 am

Neato Robotics has not published interpretation of the error messages. Some from the lidar might be found in the USB manual, I forget, like "sunblind" obvious.
You might be able to test the lidar by moving it to the XV-11 and get a scan with Neato Control -- unless you already did that on the XV-21.
Usually you would know from a history of the unit working before it failed, whether the LCD was good, for instance.
With a broken robot someone discarded, you would need replacement parts for everything, to replace until it worked, just to identify things.

The "dim green" situation I thought was part of being locked in charging mode for failure of diode D14 on the old system boards -- leaking battery voltage back into the dock connection circuits for false indication. The capacitor C10 is for the cpu 3v power supply, where the memory would not be powered up at start properly and flip the cpu into firmware update mode from seeing an empty flash memory.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby Jozer99 » February 9th, 2018, 7:16 am

The XV-21, when supplied with charged batteries, does work with Neato Control. Using that I was able to verify that the various sensors including LIDAR, and all the motors seem to work. However, in Neato Control, it was able to detect that a cable was plugged into the AC port, but would not charge or detect power (no readings on the charger voltage or charging amps). I got the same behavior when I swapped in a second, new Binky board. Is there a known issue where the Neato won't charge without a good LCD module?
Jozer99
 
Posts: 41
Joined: June 22nd, 2009, 12:31 am

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby glnc222 » February 9th, 2018, 3:13 pm

Do you have the separate XV-21 dock? It sounds like the External Voltage in Neato Control, from the dock is not there. Maybe the dock is defective, or those components which recognize the dock (both in the bot and the dock).
Check the dock plates with a volt meter. Maybe some connection to the rear charging contacts in the bot, that cable.
Do you have the correct dock for the XV-21, with the newer power brick?
Hard to say much without comprehensive details on all systems.

Interesting long video demo or refurbishing a scrap XV by skilled engineer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSLGBzEumAM&list=UUllFkMo5A0V5UKYNltNEt4Q&index=9
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby Jozer99 » February 9th, 2018, 8:57 pm

I have two docks, one for the XV-21 and one for the XV-11. The XV-11 is able to charge fine on either of them. Using a voltmeter I read the correct voltage coming from the AC adapter. I have also tried charging the XV-21 directly using the DC jack with both power supplies, no luck with either one.
Jozer99
 
Posts: 41
Joined: June 22nd, 2009, 12:31 am

Re: XV-21 Broken: Repair or Scrap?

Postby glnc222 » February 10th, 2018, 12:15 am

Can't tell what docks you have without the specs on the brick labels, lower amps on the newer ones. On the Rev64 board the side charging jack may not be connected, with the case due for a later change to match the board. It was just covered up on some models before making new cases without the jack.
You don't measure the brick but the charging plates on the front, because there is a circuit board in the dock between the PSU brick and the plates.

The brick contains short circuit protection, and if shorted disconnects until unplugged from the wall to reset.

Sounds like these bots preceded the dock change with incompatibility.
It is always possible the new board you got had defects.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4700
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.


Return to Neato Robotics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aarolar, Heraklen, johnnyh, KeldBroe, lanchez, Metalworker, mobzd, someoneclever, Tfranzen, vic7767 and 247 guests