Replacement battery for D5?

News and information about the Neato XV-11 Robotic Vacuum. All discussion and troubleshooting questions go here.

Replacement battery for D5?

Postby Botty » October 13th, 2018, 7:58 pm

Think my D5 might need a new battery. It’s running fine but when it sits on the charger it shows this:

Image

Does that look like a dying battery to you?

If so, do these batteries fit a D5/D7 etc ok?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FRTEWK2/ ... WBbNTSD2V5
Botty
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 125
Joined: August 27th, 2018, 9:53 am

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby glnc222 » October 14th, 2018, 1:39 pm

The battery you linked is the NiMh battery for older Dxx models like D75, D85 etc., while the newer models Dx like D3, D5, D7 latest, use lithium ion batteries thankfully, with replacements such as
https://www.amazon.com/Neato-Robotics-945-0225-BotVac-Battery/dp/B01LLH5ZMI
That looks like a genuine Neato Robotics part, not sure there are any other suppliers. Lithium batteries require extra high degree quality control in manufacture and must be sourced from major suppliers, as the slightest contamination of materials causes a fire hazard. You typically see the makers of devices supplying these batteries as the cell makers used do not assemble packs. The NiMh packs are easy to source so there are many after-market suppliers. In cell phones and computers, it is best to get the batteries from the equipment makers, for the quality control. There have been problems with phone batteries burning up etc.
The lithium batteries adopted by the vacuum makers in recent years give superior performance and lifetime compared to their older NiMh batteries, though those have fallen in price a lot. There are lithium replacements for original NiMh batteries with adapter electronics to operate with the NiMh charger, but better for the XV models than the Botvac, which has a lower 12v voltage system for NiMh not fitting well to lithium cell voltages. The best Botvac replacement was DIY here using the longest lasting type of cell, LiFePo4, with a better fit to the voltage. No commercial supplier. I think the newer Botvac's supplied with lithium batteries run on the higher XV voltages, you need to check. Battery voltage can be read over USB with the Neato Control program or with a volt meter. Voltage can vary a couple volts between full and discharged states. Each battery chemistry type has a voltage discharge curve defining its properties, and Neato software uses that to monitor the battery condition among other things (it actually integrates current x time to measure actual charge usage as well).

(edit) Label on Neato's lithium battery shows nominal 14.4v, compared to the 12v NiMh packs for older Botvacs.
This is consistent with a 4 cell lithium ion series with maximum voltage around 16v, 14.4 being down in the longer part of the discharge curve. Similar to XV model system. They may have two parallel series for capacity, or even specially shaped cells.
Last edited by glnc222 on October 14th, 2018, 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby Botty » October 14th, 2018, 1:44 pm

thanks for the info. annoyingly, neither the neato uk store nor their official amazon uk page has any connected batteries for sale. Ridiculous not have such a basic accessory available when you sell such expensive machines!

Image
Botty
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 125
Joined: August 27th, 2018, 9:53 am

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby glnc222 » October 14th, 2018, 1:51 pm

addendum: the per cent figure shown is the fuel gauge number readable over USB. This is computed in Botvac by a dedicated Maxim IC sold for just this purpose, integrating current x time to measure charge in and out (XV models used the main cpu). This IC has sometimes been found defective and replaced by owners equipped and qualified for electronics work, documented in other threads here. The fuel gauge number may also be manually set over USB -- it was on XV models, needs checking on Botvac's, to correct wrong readings created various ways. When batteries are replaced an LCD menu option for "New Battery" needs to be used so the system can calculate battery condition properly -- the system does not know what charge is in the battery installed, to set the fuel guage. So it sets it to programmed levels upon completing full charge, then monitors the discharge. Complicated business with maybe possible slips here and there.

Perhaps before dumping a battery, try manually setting to 100 after a full charge, and see if run time is below normal. The standard symptom of a bad battery is reduced capacity and so run time, with matching faster charging to fill less capacity. Batteries lose capacity slowly with age, or from some sort of damage. NiMh batteries actually decline just in storage unused, but lithium self-wears very much slower, one of the improvements in using those. Batteries last a certain number of charging cycles (my Samsung lithium batteries are just being replaced after 400 charging cycles). Knowing how long and how frequently the battery has been used can suggest whether it is likely the battery has worn out in normal fashion. Defective new batteries might show a shorter than normal lifetime.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby glnc222 » October 14th, 2018, 2:10 pm

Maybe you could order from the U.S. Amazon site as linked above with Amazon's international shipping, expensive from the U.S. Maybe try France and take the channel tunnel? Go to Vorwerk in Germany for Octoberfest.

In the U.S. these genuine Neato batteries are listed by many vendors on Ebay. Try Ebay UK, for that particular part number 945-0225.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby glnc222 » October 14th, 2018, 2:14 pm

There were two sizes for this battery, the smaller D3 and D5. You could greatly increase run time of the cheaper D3 by replacing the battery with the higher capacity D5 model. Same size physically, compatible. Not clear about more advanced D7 whether any changes in latest model releases. Battery makers make continual advances in the technology, come out with new cells etc.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby Botty » October 14th, 2018, 4:53 pm

glnc222 wrote:Maybe you could order from the U.S. Amazon site as linked above with Amazon's international shipping, expensive from the U.S. Maybe try France and take the channel tunnel? Go to Vorwerk in Germany for Octoberfest.

In the U.S. these genuine Neato batteries are listed by many vendors on Ebay. Try Ebay UK, for that particular part number 945-0225.



madness. there's no one on uk ebay selling that part number and the neato UK store says sold out. it must surely be possible to buy this in the uk somewhere
Botty
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 125
Joined: August 27th, 2018, 9:53 am

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby Botty » October 15th, 2018, 5:54 am

this is what neato support said lol

"I have not found any links to where you can buy it in UK. However, I know that our repair center has started selling accessories like batteries. They are called www.letmerepair.com"


absurd. there is, literally, nowhere to buy neato batteries in the uk
Botty
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 125
Joined: August 27th, 2018, 9:53 am

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby Botty » October 15th, 2018, 1:53 pm

fair play to neato customer service, they're sending me a free replacement.
Have to say every experience i have with them has been excellent
Botty
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 125
Joined: August 27th, 2018, 9:53 am

Re: Replacement battery for D5?

Postby glnc222 » October 15th, 2018, 7:43 pm

Replacement of my Samsung Powerbot battery required Samsung's U.S. part distributor to order from Korea, not stocked, 6 weeks delivery. They last so long there just may not be enough demand for replacements. There is another such part distributor in the UK.

It will be interesting whether your old battery was really bad or the fuel guage IC at fault. If the fuel gauge remains wrong after battery replacement, that might be the case. Only shortened run time really indicates a worn battery.
The battery capacity can also be checked over USB by running only the fan for about 1/3 normal load, and monitor the voltage discharge curve for premature discharge. The actual current drain is also supported, so estimates of the capacity can be made from the time. Do not over discharge, below 12v (Neato ought to protect this, but in Test Mode over USB not clear).

Either way, a bargain free battery.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4826
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.


Return to Neato Robotics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 911medic, im1kissfan, mfortuna, shirgal and 120 guests