4.2.3 Update Issue

News and information about the Neato XV-11 Robotic Vacuum. All discussion and troubleshooting questions go here.

4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby litgypsy » November 14th, 2018, 7:31 pm

About two weeks ago we pushed through the 4.2.3 update to our D5 Connected and now we have the following issues:

- both lights are are, solidly, no matter what I try
- cannot hard reset
- no longer connected to the app
- when the robot tries to clean, it moves away from the base and starts and stops three times before giving up (sounds similar to some other posts here)

Since I got it shipped to Japan when I bought it 6 months ago, it's no longer covered under warranty, so I've tried
- disconnecting and reconnecting the battery (no change to both lights being solid)
- cleaning all brushes and sensors and the laser housing
- taking it apart and all connections seem to be fine, but when I tried to run it with the top off, the lidar wasn't spinning

This was working perfectly and is only about 6 months old, so before I try buying new parts for the lidar, I would like to try to reinstall the firmware. My husband seems to remember seeing an issue with the update on the app and I think this is the issue. Is there anywhere to find any version of the firmware for the d5 that I could install using the micro USB connection? They only seem to offer the firmware for the older models online.

As someone who used to work in tech support myself, I find it frustrating how limited Neato's customer support is. I've been talking for over a week with a member of the support team and he basically kept telling me to clean it and reset it and then sorry, no warranty so you're SOL.

Any help is much appreciated!
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby litgypsy » November 14th, 2018, 8:17 pm

Update: I just tried contacting Neato support again, via chat this time, and was told repeatedly that, even though I have no warranty and this is less than a year old, the agent has no access to the firmware files and can't help me. Sigh.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby Botty » November 15th, 2018, 3:55 am

since the update my D5 started ignoring areas of my house. I'm in the middle of trying to sort it with CS. I found out from them how to do a factory reset, which you can try if you haven't already.

1) press and hold power button until the robot turns off
2) remove the bin
3) open the app and delete the robot from your account
4) press and hold the bumper at the left and front-left corner at the same time, for 10 seconds
5) This forces the robot to reset, which takes around ten minutes.
6) Let it reset itself and then re-add the robot via the app
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby litgypsy » November 15th, 2018, 4:11 am

Thanks fro this. I have got it reconnected to the app, but still have the following issues:

1) both lights are still solid. It seems to be doing things when I try to reset it and start/stop it, but the lights never change.
2) it's still trying to clean and is now giving me the 3000 error.

Any other ideas of what I can try next?
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby Botty » November 15th, 2018, 6:52 am

this is def one for support. what they told you about the warranty is untrue.
My D5 is out of warranty and they've download the log files twice and spent loads of time on twitter and email trying to fix it for me.

contact them again via email, i've always found them incredibly helpful and willing to work on problems.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby antekw2 » November 16th, 2018, 4:17 pm

I have (had) the same problem with my D5 (soft 4.30-152). Two LEDs were red. Support as a solution indicated sending the robot to ifixrobot or funai. I asked them to connect with my robot and download logs to check the cause of the error. They did not want to do it. Now I prefer to deal with the problem myself. I've tried to reset the robot several dozen times, connect and disconnect from the network. I checked all components of the neatocontrol program - they are (were) in working order. At the moment I can not run the robot at all. The battery is charging but the robot does not connect to the network and you can not connect to it via USB. Probably the item that was damaged completely fell.
I'm now investigating what exactly happened (I have a short circuit on the motherboard).
Questions for you
1. Do you have content in memory 24c128c (ATMLH 2DCM). I would like to compare it with my memory.
2. Do you have a manual manual for this robot?
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby HiTec » November 16th, 2018, 7:06 pm

antekw2 wrote:I have (had) the same problem with my D5 (soft 4.30-152). Two LEDs were red. Support as a solution indicated sending the robot to ifixrobot or funai. I asked them to connect with my robot and download logs to check the cause of the error. They did not want to do it. Now I prefer to deal with the problem myself. I've tried to reset the robot several dozen times, connect and disconnect from the network. I checked all components of the neatocontrol program - they are (were) in working order. At the moment I can not run the robot at all. The battery is charging but the robot does not connect to the network and you can not connect to it via USB. Probably the item that was damaged completely fell.
I'm now investigating what exactly happened (I have a short circuit on the motherboard).
Questions for you
1. Do you have content in memory 24c128c (ATMLH 2DCM). I would like to compare it with my memory.
2. Do you have a manual manual for this robot?


Have you read the atmel chip? What kind of data did you find?
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby antekw2 » November 16th, 2018, 7:50 pm

Memory desoldered looking for a short circuit. I will try to read it on Monday.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby HiTec » November 17th, 2018, 6:07 am

What package is the chip using? (does it have legs, or is hot air rework station needed?)

If you can find any interesting things from that memory and it can be removed with normal soldering iron, i think i can remove it from my own working robot and read it.

What reader are you going to use) As its I2C compatible, Arduino should work well? Not sure if theres a compatible arduino library for read/write that chip, or is it needed to write that. We need to be carefull not to mess the chip data up, so should the Write Protect pin be connected to VCC during this operation?

This chip is interesting find. If only there was some configuration settings inside...
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby antekw2 » November 17th, 2018, 6:32 pm

This is the memory:
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/d ... asheet.pdf
You can program without desoldering - arduino has a library - the question of the leg of the WP and the address. I have a TL866 programmer and a SOIC-8 system clip. I hope that the errors will be stored in memory. At an authorized service, they can be probably read by USB (maybe some service technician will terminate).

Within 2 weeks, I will probably be able to buy the second used D5 vacuum cleaner so I will have another test base. From Monday I am starting a short circuit test ... I hope the processor is not damaged.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby HiTec » November 18th, 2018, 9:06 am

Yea i have read that datasheet. Have someone tested what neato control "clear black box" or something like that command does?

It would also be interesting to dump robots Kingston EMMC04G-M627 4GB MLC NAND/eMMC, to see operating system files. Should be possible to read that with a simple USB SD card reader if we knew the chips pinout.

You could try to carefully apply pressure on the processor/eMMC and then try to boot to see if its a BGA solder problem. But since the eeprom is already desoldered, its same to dump its content and share findings for us learn something new.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby antekw2 » November 19th, 2018, 7:10 pm

I read the memory. Unfortunately, it is empty (the programmer is working, other such memories are read and programmed).
I bought another vacuum cleaner. In a few days I will have it on the table and I will try to resurrect the corpse of the currently owned vacuum cleaner.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby HiTec » November 22nd, 2018, 9:52 am

Are you able to read eMMC? The main memory chip where the firmware files are at?

That would be certainly interesting, as we cant read the raw firmware.bin file, but in eMMC the firmware.bin should be at extracted form after upgrade process.
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby antekw2 » November 28th, 2018, 1:01 pm

Unfortunately, I do not have a programmer for memory emmc, otherwise I would have to desolder the memory to see where the pins responsible for the appropriate signals are. I am currently working on a second robot. His memory 24c128 also looks empty. I can not set the laser (many errors 8035).
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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby HiTec » November 28th, 2018, 7:24 pm

Please read this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... h88R-qm8Ty

You basically only need couple of dollars costing sd card usb reader and 4 wires if the correct eMMC pins are found.

This is also interesting, even though its Xiaomi and different operating systems, but the processors are ARM in both robots.

https://www.google.fi/amp/s/www.kaspers ... 20632/amp/

However, let’s get back to the Xiaomi Mi Robot. The researchers’ next attempt was to attack the vacuum cleaner’s hardware. Here, they finally succeeded — by using aluminum foil to short-circuit some of the tiny contacts connecting processor to motherboard, causing the processor to enter a special mode that allows reading and even writing to flash memory directly through the USB connection.

That’s how Giese and Wegemer managed to obtain Mi Robot firmware, reverse-engineer it, and, eventually, modify and upload it to the vacuum cleaner, thereby gaining full control over the unit.

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Re: 4.2.3 Update Issue

Postby HiTec » November 30th, 2018, 8:40 am

Okay, this should work for reading the eMMC and robot firmware:

This robots eMMC chip has FBGA package with 153 pin layout.

There are 4 signals/pins required when reading an e.MMC memory:
- CLK = Synchronizes the signals between the e.MMC chip and the "Host Controller" (ie CPU of device)
- CMD = For issuing commands/receiving command replies from/to the "Host Controller"
- DATA0 = For receiving the data at the "Host Controller"
- VCC / VCCQ = Power for the NAND memory / Power to the Device Controller. In some cases, this can be the same voltage (1.8 V)
- GND / VSS = Ground

This pinout matches the robots eMMC pinout:

Image

Green pins only.

You can read it with this, if you remove the chip with hot air and re-install it to this reader:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-eMMC-A ... :rk:1:pf:0

OR remove the chip and wire it to that same reader.

OR: Find correct points on robots motherboard and wire them to the reader (robot battery needs to be removed ofc.

https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-17/wed ... der-wp.pdf

http://cheeky4n6monkey.blogspot.com/201 ... ction.html

I would do this by myself if i had non-working D3,4,5,6 or 7.
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