D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

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D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby bod925 » January 6th, 2019, 8:29 am

I've had the d80 and original Connected that would get the side brush right up against a wall. I purchased a D6 and noticed that it keeps the brush about 1 inch off the wall. I sent videos to neato and they would not say if this was normal or not.
So I returned it to the store and bought a D7. It does the same thing. I did notice the wall sensor on the D6 and D7 is different than the older botvacs.
Any way to hack this so the sensor cleans against the wall fully?
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby HiTec » January 6th, 2019, 7:19 pm

I was thinking to adjust wall follower sensor on my D5 for the same reason. I think it should be possible by lowering the voltage of the ir sender led, so robot would think its not as near the wall as it should, and tries to drive closer.

I will try this mod some day and post results.
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby redpoint5 » January 8th, 2019, 1:13 pm

What about putting a slight tinted film over the sensor to attenuate some of the light? Not sure if that's how the sensor measures distance though, as dark surfaces would reflect less light back than white surfaces.

My D3 hugs the white walls, but it doesn't have a side brush.
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby valamilamasag » January 9th, 2019, 4:02 am

HiTec wrote:lowering the voltage of the ir sender led

redpoint5 wrote:attenuate some of the light

Thats not how the sensor works. It measures distance by triangulation. It shines a focused infrared dot to the wall and has a linear CCD (one axis camera) which sees where the dot appears on the wall.
You either move it physically or mod the output signal of the sensor. Its a simple analog value, but its not linear.

I dont know the exact partnumber, but it is similar to this sensor GP2Y0A21YK (but a different range variant).
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby HiTec » January 9th, 2019, 10:37 am

Aaa, okay! Thanks for correction and detailed info!
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby bcarpenter » January 17th, 2019, 10:22 pm

Do you have the “Extra care (Gentle navigation)” option on? This option keeps the bot further away from objects, including walls.
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby glnc222 » January 19th, 2019, 10:01 pm

Please identify where you find specs for the Sharp proximity sensors using triangulation. I found only one particular brand using that method, and advertised for independence of surface qualities, such as dark coloration. Dark colors have been found to interfere with the Sharp sensors on Neato, as with the drop sensors fooled by certain black carpet materials etc., a problem noted with other robot brands as well. Were triangulation used this would be less of a problem.
Since I have a post in the hacking forum on this I would be interested in more info to get the tech correct.

The one-axis camera is how the Neato Lidar is constructed, forming a parallax range finder. That stuff would seem to be a lot more expensive than the common proximity sensors. Reading the camera data would take more circuitry in an IC for one thing.
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Re: D6 and D7 do not clean against walls

Postby glnc222 » January 19th, 2019, 10:53 pm

There are two ways to adjust the sensitivity of the Neato Wall sensor. The Neato XV and original Botvac Wall and Cliff sensors use the same Sharp Proximity Sensor part# GP2Y0A51SK0F (haven't checked newest connected series models, but unlikely to change unless discontinued parts).
Digikey dealer http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/GP2Y0A51SK0F/425-2854-ND/4103863?WT.z_cid=ref_octopart_dkc_buynow&site=us
Data Sheet http://www.sharp-world.com/products/device/lineup/data/pdf/datasheet/gp2y0a51sk_e.pdf
I had played a lot with these including using one to detect arrival and departure from the dock for an automatic run time clock display, another thread.

Analog method: these sensors output measurement as an analog voltage signal connected to an analog input on the cpu with software to interpret and respond to the voltage, rising with proximity to around 4v max. So to make the wall appear farther away than it actually is, the voltage output can be reduced by a simple resistor divider to ground (the sensors have 5v power red wire, ground black, and signal colored). About 100K ohm total should be used to minimize current and suit a high impedance cpu voltage sensitive input. I once used this to replace a broken cliff sensor by creating the normal floor position voltage input. An adjustable trimmer could be used for experimentation -- see the data sheet for distance calibration.

Installation can be made by means of a patch cable at the sensor plug connection, with the connectors used all at Digi-Key and noted in the references there. No modification of circuit board or sensor board is needed if this more elaborate method is used.
Following JST connector reference in sensor data sheet:
Sensor cable end 1.5mm pitch ZH series
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ZHR-3/455-1160-ND/608602
ZH series data sheet http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/eZH.pdf
Neato system board cable end 2mm pitch PH series
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/PHR-3/455-1126-ND/527357
PH series data sheethttp://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/ePH.pdf

Software method: at least on the original XV the USB interface command language includes commands to set the calibration of the Wall and Cliff sensor data (command manual listed top of forum or in the Mods & Repairs list there). From this manual:
Command: SetDistanceCal

Description: Set distance sensor calibration values for min and max distances.
Usage: SetDistanceCal [DropMinimum] [DropMiddle] [DropMaximum] [WallMinimum] [WallMiddle] [WallMaximum]
Options:
Flag
Description
DropMinimum
Take minimum distance drop sensor readings. Mutually exclusive of DropMiddle and DropMax.
DropMiddle
Take middle distance drop sensor readings. Mutually exclusive of DropMinimim and DropMax.
DropMaximum
Take maximum distance drop sensor readings. Mutually exclusive of DropMinimum and DropMiddle.
WallMinimum
Take minimum distance wall sensor readings. Mutually exclusive of WallMiddle and WallMax.
WallMiddle
Take middle distance wall sensor readings. Mutually exclusive of WallMinimim and WallMax.
WallMaximum
Take maximum distance wall sensor readings. Mutually exclusive of WallMinimim and WallMiddle.


There is also a command to turn wall following on or off, SetWallFollower [Enable] [Disable]

There is some question how durable are these command settings when the system is shut down or the battery disconnected, resetting, whether the settings are permanent.

These settings are analogous to the hidden menus on TV's for color calibrations etc. which should not be changed except for special problems, and are set at the factory to match the operating software requirements etc. They are set to match the characteristics of particular sensor components used and might vary from one model to another in case of differences in component specs (the same components were used in all XV's and original Botvac's, Botvac-D, etc. but the connected series has not been examined). The main reason components change is because suppliers come out with new improved versions with different specs and old parts get discontinued, unavailable for mfg use.

Hacking forum: Optical Cliff Sensor Limitations
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19897&p=148527&hilit=limitations#p148527

Finally it should be noted the vacuum is programmed to stand off from the wall because of a common floor construction detail, where a quarter round molding is sometimes used on the base of the wall, which would obstruct the robot and especially a side brush pushed against it. This molding would be below the wall sensor detection, so a stand off distance is programmed to allow for it.
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