XV Lidar trouble

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XV Lidar trouble

Postby benitomeca » May 4th, 2019, 10:56 am

Hello everybody,
I'm French and i would like discuss with you about the lidar trouble on Neato XV.
I bought a old Neato XV25 Pro in a flea market for 30€. The dealer said to me the robot didn't fonction.
I test it with news battery about few minutes error message "clear my way", i restart and new error message " remove obstacles" ! i restart , and i obsverve that the Robot work at the same place and it have difficulty to go to the dock charge!
I replace C10 condensator and change the firmware 3.1 to 3.4
today i don't have error message "clear my way" but the robot is lost in the room vaccum at the same place and error message "Remove Obstacle".
My first opinion is my robot is blind !! but no message about lidar ! it turn and there is a red light ! i did not understand what could happen .
I compare with neato control the lidar function on my 2 robots (1 Robot OK and 1 this in defect )
I positionned each robot a the same position in the same room and check lidar with Neat-control .The result is one of them is blind !
See the picture and the result of comand "GetLds" there are a lot of error 8035 !

What is your opinion about this ? how do you think to repare the lidar. do you think the defect is at the turn contactor ?

Thank a lot
Have a nice day !
Attachments
Robot test laser OK.txt
Fichier comand GetLds OK
(5.17 KiB) Downloaded 384 times
Robot Laser1 OK.JPG
Cartographie OK
Robot Laser OK.JPG
Cartographie 1 OK
Robot NOK.txt
Cartographie 1 NOK
(5.01 KiB) Downloaded 386 times
Robot Laser1 NOK.JPG
Cartographie Nok
Robot Laser NOK.JPG
Fichier comand GetLds Nok
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 4th, 2019, 7:40 pm

Note French forum kelrobot.fr https://www.kelrobot.fr/forum/ to which I sometimes post -- in English.

Many users have replaced or repaired defective Lidars. The most common defect, and easily repaired, is replacing the spin motor, which does wear out. Defective motors can be detected by incorrect rotation speed reported in Neato Control, I'm not sure where. Unstable or typically too low rotation prevents the scan from working, as the direction of the beam is measured by timing the rotation. See the Mods & Repairs wiki thread top of forum for links to repairs. Other spin defects can be a worn out drive belt, clogged spin bearing, and slip ring connecting the signals across rotating parts.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby benitomeca » May 5th, 2019, 8:00 am

Hello Glnc222

Yes, i know the forum Kelrobot in France, i am Jean-Benoit in this !
I post my message in Robot reviews because, i think this forum is better for the defect who is compliqued.
The diferents problem about Lidar (no motor) are difficult and i would like know if in this forum there is a member who repair lidar blind and discuss with him.
i don't think it's the motor who is responsble about this blind on my robot, because his blind is not total...
If i found a solution to repair it, i post the answer in Robot reviews and in Kelrobot.

Thanks !
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 5th, 2019, 3:12 pm

Only a few users have posted about repairing lidars. Besides the spin motor and related mechanical fittings, the next most common repair seems to be adjusting the lens focus of the beam and receiver, with turning the threaded barrel screw fittings. This is a very tedious trial and error process as it does not seem possible to get a continuous read out of the sensor apart from running the scan at least with the Neato itself. However, there is software to run the lidar outside the Neato, and a microcontroller instrument sold just for this purpose. I do not know its capabilities. The lidar is a stand alone smart component with a serial interface for command and operation, so it depends on what features are present in this separate device.
Some links from the Mods & Repairs list top of forum at
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=16475:

Lidar Internal Electronics
http://blog.avrnoob.com/2015/08/neato-botvac-lidar-repair-part-1-ir.html

More Lidar repair, internals
http://blog.avrnoob.com/2015/08/neato-botvac-lidar-repair-part-1-ir.html

Bon chance avec votre repair.

Lidar lens focus adjustment, near-sighted
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17992&p=140958&hilit=lidar+repair#p140958

http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=140933#p140933

In principle some optical equipment could be made to adjust focus of a lens device -- think instruments used for examining eyesight -- but not worth the expense unless already equipped with optical lab stuff. Take lidar to your eye doctor...

Thanks for your old lithium ion battery project first one using the SetConfig BatteryType USB command discussed in other threads, original French https://www.kelrobot.fr/forum/faire-ses-pack-batteries-li-ion-t3293.html
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby shirgal » May 5th, 2019, 6:21 pm

Hello Jean-Benoit,
I have succeed few time with making Lidar to see again,xv & botvac units.
Try to focus the receiver eye gently just few mm move in or out each time until you see 5 circle dor is visible in Neato control map.
You need to test full cycle with Lidar closed to verify it is good.
I don't sure motor is your issue if it did not failed.
You can send me PM if you need assistance faster or even whaspp even better.

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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby benitomeca » May 6th, 2019, 3:27 pm

Hello Shirgal, Glnc222
Thank you vert much for your message !
Glnc222 you have a good mémory about my Li ion battery ! Since 2015 my robot work all day with their Li ion pack !it’s the better solution this battery for Neato XV.

For this problem about lidar blind, i havé dismounted on a very very old robot à old slip ring in the lidar and put it on the robot. I test it and i don’t have défect when i Start robot, but after 30-45min there is défect « remove my way « the lidar is blind !
It’s better than yesterday ! So i don’t know if this old slip ring is ok.
Today i need to buy a new slip ring, for test it.Do you know a dealer for this part? Normal my it’s a JINPAT supplier
réf:LPM 04B(0) but i don’t find it on the web

Thank you for all
Jean benoit
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 6th, 2019, 6:25 pm

Several posts related to the slip ring begin at
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=142898#p142898
With the Neato XV being ten years old or more, the original part may not be available anymore. Some substitutes are mentioned; see post by Lewiy.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 7th, 2019, 7:04 pm

Just to compare, a number of XV lidars are listed on Ebay, including some refurbished from Israel at $44 including shipping to France:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Neato-Lidar-LDS-laser-distance-sensor-XVs-series-refurbished-XV11-12-15-25/223368215734?hash=item3401c87cb6:g:QbEAAOSwS3lcWTp~
(0bviously time sensitive while stock lasts)
International shipping from the U.S. tends to be expensive.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 11th, 2019, 7:37 am

Hello,
I have Neato D85 with problem with the laser. I have replace it with a new one ordered form ebay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIDAR-Laser-Licht-Diod-Laserdiode-F%C3%BCr-Neato-Botvac-D-Neato-XV-Series-Staubsauger/173700252076?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649.
In neato control I saw a map on scanner but image are not correct (like zoom out image).
Do you have any idea how to adjust laser if is possible ((1.I test to move and rotate laser; 2. Lend before scanner) but image view like scaled)

With NOT work laser:
not work.jpg
NOT OK

See green dots at robot zoon
not work_1.jpg
NOT OK_1_see green dots at robot zoon

zoomed
not work_2.jpg
Zoomed
not work_2.jpg (8.17 KiB) Viewed 5343 times


With working laser form other robot:
OK.jpg
with laser form other working neato


Thanks a lot.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 11th, 2019, 3:54 pm

I assume you refer to the reflections of the beam shown right next to the bot on one side. It is hard to know but this reminds me of one report from a German engineer here that his lidar was not mounted properly level onto the system board and was tilted so the beam pointed downward at part of the case. It would be interesting in this situation to test this lidar outside the robot using some cabling made for the purpose or one of the test instruments available (the lidars are sometimes removed for use in other robotics projects, and are stand-alone instrumentes with a serial interface). The problem here is that if the lidar is working correctly on other sections of the diagram, on distant reflections shown, it is hard to identify a component failure.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 11th, 2019, 4:33 pm

Hello,
I made some tests with same bot only replace laser.
This is result with both lasers.
OK:
OK.jpg
OK

Not OK:
not work.jpg
not ok


Tomorrow I try it to make your test.
Thank a lot.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 17th, 2019, 11:27 am

Hello,

today I tested the lidar without neato's cover.The result is the same - the lidar view zoom out, curved lines, when there is an object near by the robot green dots going into robot at natocontol and range of view are about 1m.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 17th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Without some diagnostic software to get control of the lidar without it spinning I don't know what can be done. Given how it appears that the defective unit is showing a distant wall incorrectly close to the robot might suggest the lens focus of the receiver is incorrect. The way distance is measured by these lidars is by parallax angle of the receiver, like a range finder, not light speed timing like radar over miles. The angle is measured by position of the return image of the small laser spot on a camera-like sensor, so could in principle be affected by incorrect focus. The distance between the two barrels provides the parallax angle separation. Accuracy limits the distance range usable but also allows for very close up measurements. Some users have adjusted the lens focus via the threaded barrels, very tedious with repeated scans. No one mentions taking out the barrels and trying to look through them. Whether barrels can be swapped with a known good lidar is unknown. How these barrels would get out of focus over time is also a puzzle, though there is all that spinning and vibration.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 17th, 2019, 2:37 pm

I took the same robot from a friend and replaced the laser only and was working perfectly after that.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 19th, 2019, 2:21 pm

Today I made test with another D85, replacing the original laser with the one I bought form ebay (ordered it twice) and the result is the same. Are you sure that the lasers from D85 and XV are compatible each other?
Thank a lot.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 20th, 2019, 10:18 am

I guess there's no way to tell unless someone tries it. These lasers are laser diodes mounted in a lens tube, and are driven by a specialized IC for the regulation laser diodes need compared to regular LED's, current limiting, variable load, and the oscillation to save power etc. The lidar is low power for safety as important not to beam lasers directly into eyes -- official power level and safety classifications of different types. One might suspect for the same rating devices different led's could all be driven by the same components. Plus mfg simplicity of making them all the same, given they are stand alone devices with their own on board processor.

[edit] See laser diode replacement thread http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=21320
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 23rd, 2019, 7:23 pm

See related thread laser diode replacement
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=21320
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 23rd, 2019, 7:50 pm

Yes, I bought form ebay this lasers https://www.ebay.com/itm/173700252076?ul_noapp=true (ordered it twice) and the result is the same.
Now image is like curved lines see green dots, but actually lines are right red lines.
rotund.jpg
curved
rotund.jpg (7.99 KiB) Viewed 4604 times
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby glnc222 » May 26th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Next step would seem to be swapping the receiver barrel with one from a working vacuum.
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Re: XV Lidar trouble

Postby peshoteslata2 » May 26th, 2019, 4:53 pm

The problem is not in receiver, when I change laser from working vacuum, everything is ok and line are straight and bot working fine.
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