News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

News and information about the Samsung Navibot, Tango, Furot and VC series Robotic Vacuums. All discussion and troubleshooting questions go here.

Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby mfortuna » October 17th, 2017, 1:14 pm

RobotJunkie30 wrote:
glnc222 wrote:My 9000 series model has navigated perfectly for two years and over 300 runs. I don't expect that system to be any different in the 7000 series. The same sort of camera system is now used by Roomba, LG, Dyson, Bosch, and Electrolux besides Samsung. The lidar systems are a dozen years old, ancient history in electronics. The ever advancing capacity of cpu's and cheaper cameras makes the difference.

Eather you have 2 room apartment or you work for samsung. What is it? I do not beleave your claim of perfect navigation. Xiaomi comes close but 7000 is far far away from perfect navigation. Neather 9000 nor 7000 can come close to irobot 980 let alone xiaomi in navigation! Yes all those vaccums you mention are horrible. Bosch also relies on laser as I understand it not only camera. Old system but camera is new? A robot navigating in a house with furniture mooving, doors closing, people going around, and light sorces changing only solution is LDS not a webcam. Irobot and samsung are like blind bats feeling around and LDS robots see the whole room right away with millimeter precision. Neatos programmers are **** that is why xiaomi cold overtake them in a matter of a year and have better navigation. Just wait for their version 2 and 3 it will just crush evarything as they are doing allready.


gin222 is a valued contributor to Samsung, Neato, and other forums at RR. He doesn't work for or advertise for Samsung. If you are happy with your robot fine. Do not use it as an opportunity to question other members on their choice of robots.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby piokrza » October 17th, 2017, 2:26 pm

I finally looked at the VR7000 in Saturn, they had several models including a self-cleaning brush model. What I noticed visually and what was not showed or written on the internet is that in the brush cover of this model, exactly the bottom of each of the "spans" (which prevent pulling-in cables) is metal exactly matched and engraved to the stems in the same place on the brush, and also at both ends of the brush. The hairs in the winding are moved to these places, and they are pulled by force so that they must tear and go inwards, into the center of the brush and into the dustbin. Visually it looks simple and innovative in my opinion, interesting whether it will prove effective in practice. Perhaps it is the first solution that once and for all closes the problem of hair getting into the gear and bearings.

Samsung_vacuumbot_wiper_structure_.jpg
5 rows - 3 in between and 2 on each side
Last edited by piokrza on October 17th, 2017, 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby piokrza » October 17th, 2017, 3:11 pm

I got most recent Samsung's leaflet in Saturn (scans incl. robot)

Scan5.jpg

Scan0.jpg

Scan1.jpg

Scan2.jpg

Scan3.jpg

Scan4.jpg
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » October 17th, 2017, 7:35 pm

The funny thing is if I worked for Samsung, their robots would be a lot better! I needed two mods shown in the VR9000 series thread (not bothering to improve cliff sensors myself, lacking black floors). The 7000 appears to have improved the side bumper thanks to the brush farther forward making room. But then, bots without mods are less fun. Best thing since the Erector Set toy and the Altair computer kit.
I think in the U.S. they have barred me from posting reviews on their website after some initial critical posts (saves trouble reading submissions). But for technical acumen, they gave me a high rating on their forum (where it is best to be nice -- leave trolling to facebook etc. and more interesting topics like political scandals -- there is not that large an audience here...).

There was one report the hair cutting feature does not work on short fluffy cat hair, but may work on longer.
When lubricating the brush drive pulley I saw no fiber contamination of the belt compartment, despite some on the brush bristles (advantage to all blade brushes which do not trap fibers).
I am not sure the intake shutter does much against walls compared to corners. I imagine they wanted to show it off more at least.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby justflie » October 18th, 2017, 10:46 pm

What is the upgrade cycles on these bots (especially 9000 series)? Will the next announcements be at CES in the winter? My Neato XV-11 is STILL going strong (amazingly, given all the reports of unreliability) after years of daily running, but I'm starting to get a hankering for something new. Neato really hasn't pushed the ball forward much and I've been impressed by Samsung's navigation.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby susantx3 » October 19th, 2017, 2:10 am

[quote="RobotJunkie30"][quote="glnc222"]My 9000 series model has navigated perfectly for two years and over 300 runs. I don't expect that system to be any different in the 7000 series. The same sort of camera system is now used by Roomba, LG, Dyson, Bosch, and Electrolux besides Samsung. The lidar systems are a dozen years old, ancient history in electronics. The ever advancing capacity of cpu's and cheaper cameras makes the difference.[/quote]
Eather you have 2 room apartment or you work for samsung. What is it? I do not beleave your claim of perfect navigation. Xiaomi comes close but 7000 is far far away from perfect navigation. Neather 9000 nor 7000 can come close to irobot 980 let alone xiaomi in navigation! Yes all those vaccums you mention are horrible. Bosch also relies on laser as I understand it not only camera. Old system but camera is new? A robot navigating in a house with furniture mooving, doors closing, people going around, and light sorces changing only solution is LDS not a webcam. Irobot and samsung are like blind bats feeling around and LDS robots see the whole room right away with millimeter precision. Neatos programmers are **** that is why xiaomi cold overtake them in a matter of a year and have better navigation. Just wait for their version 2 and 3 it will just crush evarything as they are doing allready.[/quote]

glnc222 is always one of the first to offer help, perhaps you did not mean it but you comment came off as rude.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » October 19th, 2017, 4:16 am

What is the upgrade cycles on these bots (especially 9000 series)? Will the next announcements be at CES in the winter?


That is when they have introduced changes before, for promotion. Major changes like from Navibot to Powerbot, to the smaller 7000 Powerbot do not come every year. In between, they tinker with the features, like introducing the 9350 model in 2016 (or just cosmetically making a Star Wars memorial edition?). Any number of possibilities can be noted: adding the intake shutter from the 7000 to the 9000, or the hair cutting brush to the 9000, or adding more mag strip models (the Virtual Guards sold in Europe are really not designed for the Powerbot, and omitted on most models). Adding the "select-a-room" feature to more models. Competition exists in Neato Robotics advance in mapping with marking virtual boundaries on a map, which I wonder if Samsung will try to match. One thing standing out is there is no "select-a room" model in the 7000 series, pretty obvious gap.

They could introduce a new line of lower capacity, cheaper models for that market segment.

The have announced in the U.S. a 7065 model like the 7070 but with the combo brush.
Whatever new is added is likely to be expensive at first. My personal preference is for things that matter to cleaning function more than gadgets (like "Point Cleaning"). I am guessing that if you want to clean carpets, the models rated with higher power should be used compared to some of the cheapest ones they have in their broad catalog -- which seems frequently shuffled. Get the cheapest one which can clean the premises involved (though I give some weight to possible future changes in venue, strictly personal choices). I would probably have got the 7000 series were they available at the time. The brush is not that much shorter than the 9000 and I do not happen to need the larger bin, which could be a factor to some customers -- how big a place? Are there pets and so on? (Beware the models with smaller batteries and so shorter run times; most of them go a full hour in "normal" power mode, unless you have a small space).

LIke everything in electronics, the longer you wait the better they get (sort of), so "if it ain't broke...". But beware the ongoing costs of batteries in old units. Large batteries are a big portion of the cost in these things and included in a new robot. The longer life of lithium batteries adopted by the industry in the last couple years comes at a higher price, which partly explains the higher prices seen over time. They seem to have discovered a market exists worth investing in making these higher priced models, which may not have existed years ago.

There can be a long term plan -- planned obsolescence -- in their operation because I just noticed a connector in the two year old original 9250 for a mag strip sensor not used on models until over a year later. No telling what they've got up their sleeve.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby justflie » October 19th, 2017, 7:34 am

Thanks, Ginc. I’ll keep an eye on the news, then. Thankfully I’m not in a rush, just starting to get that antsy feeling!
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby RobotJunkie30 » October 28th, 2017, 3:13 am

susantx3 wrote:
RobotJunkie30 wrote:
glnc222 wrote:My 9000 series model has navigated perfectly for two years and over 300 runs. I don't expect that system to be any different in the 7000 series. The same sort of camera system is now used by Roomba, LG, Dyson, Bosch, and Electrolux besides Samsung. The lidar systems are a dozen years old, ancient history in electronics. The ever advancing capacity of cpu's and cheaper cameras makes the difference.

Eather you have 2 room apartment or you work for samsung. What is it? I do not beleave your claim of perfect navigation. Xiaomi comes close but 7000 is far far away from perfect navigation. Neather 9000 nor 7000 can come close to irobot 980 let alone xiaomi in navigation! Yes all those vaccums you mention are horrible. Bosch also relies on laser as I understand it not only camera. Old system but camera is new? A robot navigating in a house with furniture mooving, doors closing, people going around, and light sorces changing only solution is LDS not a webcam. Irobot and samsung are like blind bats feeling around and LDS robots see the whole room right away with millimeter precision. Neatos programmers are **** that is why xiaomi cold overtake them in a matter of a year and have better navigation. Just wait for their version 2 and 3 it will just crush evarything as they are doing allready.


glnc222 is always one of the first to offer help, perhaps you did not mean it but you comment came off as rude.


I apologize if it was taken that way. But it was simply a question its like saying Donald Trump is a perfect president. So person eather does not have TV or internet at home or they work for the nice president, other possibilities are not intresting. I just cannot bleave that a person that has wast experience in robots would claim perfect navigation. In our 6 room 2 bath and 3 hallways it was totaly lost I tried with 2 different units. 200USD price on amazon tells it all no point in discussing.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » October 28th, 2017, 4:01 am

The confusion here involves the term "perfect navigation" which is being used loosely here, as sort of a vague subject to begin with. There are many aspects of the robot navigation, so "perfect" cannot be applied to all the aspects. When it comes to fine details such as going around chair legs, or bumping things, there are going to be differences in operation between brands. The round shape robots do better on some things. Obviously some have added sonar sensors, though how well they improve operation has not been extensively reported. I did have to add soft velcro to the Powerbot for bumping -- which all the robots I've seen do sometimes. What I mean by the Powerbot navigating properly is just that it performs as specified and follows a guided pattern to cover the room, not going astray or making strange moves; the camera based mapping system, used by several brands now, do work.

The robot will not navigate at all if it cannot move on the floor which can be a problem with carpets, both from depth of pile and slippery qualities of some textiles. That is of particular interest to my situation, where Neato robots had to be modified to get even a partial solution. The 9000 series powerbots have larger 4 inch wheels plus higher traction tread designs which help with this problem (reminiscent of the old Trilobite with larger wheels). I have not tested the new 7000 series, though it has the same wheel treads if not the tire size. The 9000's are the only robot I have seen which can move on the "Premium Wamasutta Fluffy Bath Rugs" -- and so navigate there.
The 9350 has an even higher traction wheel from flexible wheel rims besides the tread, unusual. Some robot brands have been reported to have more severe problems with carpets, from various details of design, than others, sometimes shown in youtube video reviews.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby RobotJunkie30 » October 28th, 2017, 6:59 am

glnc222 wrote:The confusion here involves the term "perfect navigation" which is being used loosely here, as sort of a vague subject to begin with. There are many aspects of the robot navigation, so "perfect" cannot be applied to all the aspects. When it comes to fine details such as going around chair legs, or bumping things, there are going to be differences in operation between brands. The round shape robots do better on some things. Obviously some have added sonar sensors, though how well they improve operation has not been extensively reported. I did have to add soft velcro to the Powerbot for bumping -- which all the robots I've seen do sometimes. What I mean by the Powerbot navigating properly is just that it performs as specified and follows a guided pattern to cover the room, not going astray or making strange moves; the camera based mapping system, used by several brands now, do work.

The robot will not navigate at all if it cannot move on the floor which can be a problem with carpets, both from depth of pile and slippery qualities of some textiles. That is of particular interest to my situation, where Neato robots had to be modified to get even a partial solution. The 9000 series powerbots have larger 4 inch wheels plus higher traction tread designs which help with this problem (reminiscent of the old Trilobite with larger wheels). I have not tested the new 7000 series, though it has the same wheel treads if not the tire size. The 9000's are the only robot I have seen which can move on the "Premium Wamasutta Fluffy Bath Rugs" -- and so navigate there.
The 9350 has an even higher traction wheel from flexible wheel rims besides the tread, unusual. Some robot brands have been reported to have more severe problems with carpets, from various details of design, than others, sometimes shown in youtube video reviews.


I agree with you on the subject on high pile carpets and climbing ability it is one of the better ones I have tried. But that kinda falls to the ground when you have no way of preventing it from going where it should not “climb”. We have 2 rocking chairs and with xiaomi or neato i just place magnetic tape on the “leags” and I do not have to worry about it ever again. My judgment of how good a robot is lies on vaccum just doing it's thing and me just emptying dust bin and nothing else. Samsung is good vacuum but a veary bad robot. It crashes into furniture, it takes forever around complex objects like table and chair legs and does not clean that well leaving dust around the legs. It has short battery life, bad navigation and it resets cleaning session every time it finds a new reason for stopping. I have watched it go 5 times same spots missing entire areas if house and closing doors on itself. Oh yeah and “edge clean” is just a gimmick thet dies not work and it is used on 20% of edges. Just a really bad robot but a good vacuum.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » October 28th, 2017, 2:02 pm

Interesting mention of rocking chairs. A problem with many robots I found was the bumper positioned too far above the floor, failing to engage the cantilever, runner legs on Scandinavian style chairs, low floor lamp bases, speaker bases etc. Robots tend to climb onto these and get stuck. A particular problem with Neato Botvac was flared pedestal bar stools, noted in France, fixed by lowering the bumper on the Neato.
One would think sonar sensors would improve on this but more video demonstrations would be of interest.
The IR proximity sensors used do not work on dark colored objects, so work only in some cases.
You can test for the bar stool problem making a similar base out of cardboard covered with aluminum foil, supported over a soup bowl.
See the Neato forum thread http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17368&p=141951&hilit=bumper+lower#p141951
For the Powerbot, the addition to the side bumper solved the particular problem here, so the bumper did not get lowered entirely -- but can be whenever needed.
Mod thread http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19388&p=138691&hilit=tilt+limiting+mod#p138691
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » October 28th, 2017, 10:53 pm

Back to navigation, the annoying defect I see is failure of robots to analyze the path on which they enter tight spaces and get needlessly trapped in them. They literally don't know where they are going... If there is some limitation on processing capacity preventing this, it has not been revealed.
Robots are like people in one of those "escape room" games becoming common. Maybe programmers should play.
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby mfortuna » October 29th, 2017, 9:22 am

I have a Neato and Mint that get trapped quite often. My 11+ year old roombas usually escape traps because they start to rotate in smaller and smaller increments as time goes on. Rotate a little, move forward, repeat. I have not caught my Neato in the act but the Mint kept doing the exact same move in an attempt to escape. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. :D
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » October 29th, 2017, 1:13 pm

The larger Powerbot at least does not get trapped under a cabinet between the legs and wall like the Neato's did at times always spinning around to the wrong direction instead of the obvious exit, with the Powerbot at least getting it right after a few moves. If they can do things like Neato "corner clever", and Samsung poking three times into corners, I don't see why this cannot be improved. Certainly ones which retain the entire house map for "select-a-room" and such. But if it does improve, you will have to buy a new model -- and there goes your color scheme... still waiting for the mauve model.

The R7040 lower power version is on sale at Best Buy down to $350, though maybe only until the holiday shopping season. The R9250 full power is no more than the R7070.

[edit] For models lacking the mag strip sensing, it turns out possible for hobbyists to add this feature. See hacking forum post "Powerbot Mag Strip Addition Mod" http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20181
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby piokrza » November 1st, 2017, 5:57 pm

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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby vic7767 » November 1st, 2017, 7:02 pm

:cheers:
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby piokrza » November 11th, 2017, 1:46 pm

when and why do not buy weak version "20X" of Powerbot VR7000:

there is stronger "40x" version of VR7000's but the most strongest suction has still one of VR9000's high-end model
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Re: News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

Postby glnc222 » November 11th, 2017, 11:48 pm

I do not see the failure -- tedious video, didn't listen, just watched. Did I miss something? The white stuff looks like paint or something no vac would remove. I would prefer the higher power for any carpet cleaning. There is no good data to show differences in power, so we are left with assuming the worst case.

The makers do not seem to be focused on cleaning power as much as gadgetry, smart phone apps etc. Dyson emphasizes cleaning power. Experience with older, low power robots suggests high power is not needed to dust hard floors; they basically can be just swept because dirt not imbedded in the floor like carpet.
Even the higher power robots may not clean carpet as well as a full size vacuum. Yet for the Samsung at least I have data showing it effective. Just insufficient data of the right kind for other brands. I did have limited data collected on Neato showing less effective. The Samsung intake is flat on the floor good for carpets, like full size vacs.
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