News 2017: Samsung POWERbot VR7000

[piokrza]

Samsung is planning to introduce newly designed POWERbot VR7000 on CES 2017, but already unveiled some infos.

In short:

* 28% slimmer (97mm/4in tall) than previous POWERbot VR9000
* up to 20 watt motor suction power (depending on model)
* Edge Clean Master feature (15mm/0.5 in of the wall cleaning) - wide 288mm/11in brush placed close to the front
* Auto Shutter feature - drop down a barrier to help the unit sweep up more dust collected closer to the edges
* Self-Cleaning Brush System - significantly reduces the amount of dust and hair that gets trapped in the bristles
* Visionary Mapping™ Plus and FullView Sensor™ 2.0, the POWERbotTM VR7000 maps and remembers contours of the room to provide thorough cleaning, detects and follows obstacles of 10mm in width
* Intelligent Power Control feature automatically adjusts the level of suction power, optimizing cleaning functions according to surface type (hardfloor/rug)
* IoT-ready, and fully controllable remotely by app
* POWERbot VR7000 is compatible with Amazon Echo so consumers can control it using voice commands (only Wi-Fi enabled models)


Source: https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung ... t-ces-2017

[someoneclever]

I'm very interested in how Auto Shutter would work.


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[piokrza]

1:18

bottom view: https://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-p ... 0/preview/
rubber brush seem to be located closer to the front...

...in compare to old VR9000












http://y.tt/109457300070en.html

[glnc222]

A serious effort. See the charging contacts are now behind the brush instead of in front of it. The "auto shutter" is curious, does not show anything in pics; something more to break?. This is the sort of thing imagined for alternatives to the side brushes years ago here, when Vorwerk added one to Neato's before the Botvac; creative. It still looks like the side bumper does not go back far enough; it would have to be tested for the old trapping situations. Making it smaller and lower is a strong move against the competition, not fooling around anymore.
Need to check whether the larger 4 inch "Easy Pass" wheels still go with the change in size.
The auto power control detecting floor type has been offered before on other brands, but without the suction wanted; it can increase area coverage conserving power.
I doubt this will appear in U.S. stores until next fall. They have only recently got last year's 9350 into channels.
Someone over there is taking the product seriously.

[glnc222]

Press release CES Jan. 2017 with video http://www.samsung.com/ch/CES2017/home-appliances/samsung-introduces-the-powerbot-vr7000-robot-vacuum-at-ces-2017/

[piokrza]

1:26 and 2:24 showing Auto Shutter and Edge Clean Master, I guess

[glnc222]

See improved corner cleaning at the end around 3:20. I think a little better than the 9000's (some pics in that thread).

Despite Samsung's failure with the Galaxy 7 battery problems, the company makes even more money than on phones, selling the components for them, used by many makers, and has had earnings growth. Larger operation than LG companion in Korea.

[piokrza]

Yep and it's very similar to Neato Corner Clever feature, but at further reduced speed did its "back-forth" movements several times and uses Auto Shutter barrier to grab debris from the edges and corners, instead of old fashioned, inefficient side brushes. Much more clever & efficient plus less wearing.

What's important in this new VR7000 is that lower suction power 20 Watt (the same of entry-level VR9000 models) seems to be enough to suck up debris from the edges and in corners, just like only top-level high suction power model VR9350 Turbo from previous generation did it before. It's probably boosted by Auto Shutter barrier which opens brushbar channel and grab debris under brush. They used rice in corners to show.

[glnc222]

As for the lower power, I did not find the Max mode turbo power on the higher end 9000's, with half the normal run time, to clean any better, with most work still done by the brush. The much greater fan current also appears to put wear on the battery much more than the normal mode, with the batteries very expensive $175 (the 9350 did increase the battery capacity some, but the effect not clear, as there are several battery parameters not published, drain rates etc.) The motor and filter system appears non-linear and balanced at a point where a lot more current has diminished improvement in suction. In the normal mode the higher power does get engaged by the dirt sensor (inside the air duct) at rare intervals against walls at certain points, showing it works.

It is hard to tell though, whether they have reduced the Normal mode suction power. Recently the U.S. website has shown lower power figures because apparently switching to true Air Watts measures instead of motor current, without revising all the old figures, making confusing specifications.

In recent models they added a software behavior to poke three times into corners.

I at least especially welcome the creative thought put into handling the edges without problematic side brushes which pull on power cables placed against the wall etc. The dropping shield redirects suction out the sides more than normal. Dyson has mentioned their powerful suction extending out the side as well.

These are luxury models in that they have a fancy display on the robot besides supporting a smartphone display, not saving any costs there, as well as the IR remote. Compare to Neato's economizing by using the WiFi for control while eliminating the on-board display, replaced by the cost of the radio components.

I suspect Samsung switched from IR Virtual Wall (Guards) to mag strips because as noted in the manual, multiple IR beams are received by the sensor, from the dock and the remote as well, so that they cannot be allowed to reach the robot simultaneously scrambling the coded beam pulses. You could not use the Virtual Guard near the dock for example. Another example of casual design in the industry, improved after long times.

[piokrza]

These are luxury models in that they have a fancy display on the robot besides supporting a smartphone display, not saving any costs there, as well as the IR remote. Compare to Neato's economizing by using the WiFi for control while eliminating the on-board display, replaced by the cost of the radio components.

I suspect Samsung switched from IR Virtual Wall (Guards) to mag strips because as noted in the manual, multiple IR beams are received by the sensor, from the dock and the remote as well, so that they cannot be allowed to reach the robot simultaneously scrambling the coded beam pulses. You could not use the Virtual Guard near the dock for example. Another example of casual design in the industry, improved after long times.

[glnc222]

Those are the coded IR beam sensors, the same as used TV's etc. with remotes. They are still there for the dock beacon and remote, even if not responding to Virtual Walls -- a software matter. They might use the integrated detectors with logic in them to decode signals, used on TV's (I found the Roomba uses the standard coding), delivering a clean code to digital logic for software, identifying buttons pressed etc. Coding is used to distinguish one remote from another, as you can set them for TV's, and distinguish from background illumination (they point out sunlight and some lamps might interfere, overloading the sensor). So the coding allows distinction between the dock beacon, the remote control, and the Virtual Guard.

If two remotes hit together their pulses overlap scrambling the digital content, several bits long, standard serial interfacing. I wondered if the 9350 still supported processing the Virtual Guard signal, even though they added mag strip sensors. Customer support said no, but they may not be fully informed and just know the manual. But it would not be surprising if the program for using the Virtual Guard signals was eliminated, just to avoid confusion. I do not have access to a 9350 to test, and am using a Virtual Guard packaged with my 9250 from Australia. A new 9250R is now sold in the U.S. with mag strip sensing.

There were other problems with the Virtual Guard as well. It appears, even in the manual, to require a long reach to avoid reflections off walls. The TV type sensors are very sensitive and pick up weak signals. I had to cover up the omni-directional emitter on the top protecting the VW itself, signal reaching too far. There is a reason Roomba's original Virtual Walls have limited reach and were found fairly insensitive. I built my own sensors and added them to Neato's in finding this out (another thread). The VW's also do not have collimating lenses to narrow the beam more precisely, which are easy to make with chips off a plastic rod.

I use it across a kitchen opening where the beam points past the opening into the kitchen to avoid reflections.

Ideally it would be nice to mark up maps on the smartphone for areas to protect, truly virtual barriers, but they have not gotten that far yet. That the robots now show maps of the motion in detail would seem to make that possible were it to be developed. Besides, what other use do these maps have? Perhaps the mapping is not reliable enough.

[someoneclever]

Do they still run Windows? the Navibots and VR9000 robots did


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[piokrza]

Those are the coded IR beam sensors, the same as used TV's etc. with remotes. They are still there for the dock beacon and remote, even if not responding to Virtual Walls -- a software matter.

How do you know that they use magnetic strips rather than Virtual Guards? Do they showed it somewere?

[glnc222]

Manuals and specs for the 9350 and later 9250R, U.S. website, emails with customer service. Vic7767 has a 9350, but we did not get to photos of the mag sensors, in the bottom, just some things inside at the top, counterweights. Yet there was another lower end European model released with a Virtual Guard in the package in some post. The company is erratic, varied across countries. I imagine they need to sell existing stocks. Look for discounts later in the year when the new 7000 appears.

[piokrza]

Here in Poland all current VR9000 models are compatible with Virtual Guard, so you can purchase it separately if it not come with one.

I'm not sure it is worth it. At least VR9000 wasn't worth it. Absolutely not comparable with competition in terms of effectiveness. Too pricey in terms of maintenance. If it's better than Roomba (laugh) or so good, why the price tag must be 2x higher, if it's really not that good!?


EDIT: some Q&A under above movie:

* "how much for this thing?"
- "US $ 699"

* "How long is the battery life?"
- "The battery should hold between 60 and 90 minutes."

EDIT 14/01/2017:

"grey" (middle?) version with "pet" brush (similar to VR9000's), LED display, WiFi connectivity, 40x more powerful suction*

"white" (low-end?) version without Wi-Fi connectivity, without LED display, probably less features, 20x more powerful suction*

"grey" (middle?) version with "pet" brush (similar to VR9000's), LED display, WiFi connectivity, 40x more powerful suction*



little roller on the side of bumper - in background simulated "crevices" in the floor (a similar procedure was used in the advertising of the highest model of the previous generation POWERbot VR9350)

Source: http://robotvacuums.reviewed.com/conten ... leans-them
*-compared in laboratory testing with Samsung NaviBot CornerCleaner VR10F71







Source: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/aspirateur ... 59203.html

EDIT 15/01/2017:
movie http://www.computerbild.de/videos/cb-Ne ... 16313.html at 0:47 you can see Auto Shutter barrier coming down from under the bumper and grabbing debris from the edge of wall under the brush

EDIT 20/01/2017:
4:28 corner cleaning
4:58 crevice cleaning


EDIT 23/01/2017:
here http://www.pollackmedia.com/pollack-report-ces-2017/ you can read:

Going on sale in March as 2 models, for $499 with 20x suction & $699 with 40x suction of existing robot vacuums, both can be operated either with a dedicated wireless remote, through the company’s Connected Home smartphone app or even through voice control, using Amazon’s Alexa.

[rabidrobet]

So with these prices being announced, this makes the highest priced new model $700 compared to the highest priced last year’s model of MSRP of about $1200.

Anyone think Samsung will announce a new, more expensive flagship model at a higher price or is the new $700 model the new flagship?
Just wondering what others think......

[piokrza]

At CES 2017 they presented 3 models, as you can read from stickers of each: 2 with WiFi (40x & 20x), 1 without WiFi (20x). One of WiFi-enabled models is probably better equipped than another. Third model is not equipped with WiFi. No precise word about $700's model yet.

[glnc222]

Interesting review http://robotvacuums.reviewed.com/content/this-robot-vacuum-doesnt-cut-corners-it-cleans-them

Says it still has the large Easy Pass wheels.

This photo (posted above as well) shows a roller on the bumper corner to avoid scraping walls when following closely. Never seen on previous robots any brand -- very reasonable.


The way it was made lower, flatter was replacing the old thin front cleaning head on previous models with a full height casing out to the front like other brands, supplying more room inside, replacing the bulge of the cylinder dust bin and motor housing on older models. Squashed it forwards. The new look is less distinctive but more functional.

The bumper looks a little more complete along the side than the old model I had to modify with an extension backwards.

[rabidrobet]

Interesting review http://robotvacuums.reviewed.com/content/this-robot-vacuum-doesnt-cut-corners-it-cleans-them

Not really a review though.......
Did I maybe miss a link on the site?

[glnc222]

No, not much I guess, not distributed yet. In March in Europe maybe, not likely U.S., but will come. We will see.
Pricing may reflect impact on their reputation of the cell phone battery problem last year and other appliance issues.
Google for all reports. Or just a new marketing strategy, higher sales at lower prices. Specialty business but growing in share within the entire vacuum cleaner category, turning point in the industry. 20 per cent robotics now.

My kitchen timer clock on the dock has been adapted to the Powerbot. http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=140987#p140987
Perhaps this 7000 will not need the mods I made to the 9000 for the furniture leg traps http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19388

Potential new import duties might raise prices in the U.S., depending on new trade agreements. You never know which models will be sold in which countries with this company. They knock out new models at the drop of a hat.