Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

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Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby sweetie-pie » March 7th, 2012, 4:47 am

Hi,

our Roomba 560 cleared our home for years without any problems. Last year we changed the battery-pack. But now, we have a serious problem... the well known 9 beep error.

I searched several pages and boards in the Internet for a solution, without any success yet.

What I did up to now:

Perform Build in Manuel Test.
Test 2 "Bumpers":
Left bumper passed.
Right Bumper failed:
Before pressing the Bumper the Dock LED is dark, after pressing the bumper the LED lid but it does not extinguish when I release the bumper...
Test 3+4 "Cliff Sensors":
Outer & Inner Cliff Sensors passed.
Test 5-7 "Lighttouch sensors":
All tests failed. Without the plastic-cover (bumper) I tested the 5 IR-LED with my digital-camera: All LEDs lit.

I disassembled the Roomba, opened the plastic housing from the bumper-sensors and checked it for dirt. Then I used a 3V cell with a 100 Ohm-resistor and my digital-camera to check the IR-LEDs of the bumper, with success. Also I tried to check the regarding photo-diode: I used a multimeter in diode-test-mode. With IR-LED on, I measured a forward voltage ~1500 mV at the photo-diode. I think this should be okay. (For comparison I measured also the left bumper: forward voltage ~1300 mV).

So far... I think we have a problem with the main-pcb.

There are six IR-sensors without function. Six (or eight) can be an indication for a defective IC?
Are there any schematics available?
I think the photo-diodes connected to some schmitt-triggers? Maybe they are latched to the microprocessor...

Has anyone a suggestion or some links to useful pages?
Please help our lovely Roomba to come alive... :cry:

Greetings from Germany
sweetie-pie
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby Gordon » March 7th, 2012, 4:06 pm

sweetie-pie wrote:...our Roomba 560 cleared our home for years ... But now, we have .. the well known 9 beep error. ...I searched several pages and boards in the Internet for a solution, without any success yet.
Too bad you did not read this board's READ FIRST page. There is one link there that gives a good start for fixing 9-beeps.

Try out this board's searching utilities. Start with an Advanced search, upper right on page, and under the general search box. Follow that starting search with a sequence of Search these results, whose entry field will be seen at the left margin above the results.
and wrote:What I did up to now:
Perform Build in Manuel Test.
Test 2 "Bumpers":
Left bumper passed.
Right Bumper failed:
...Many 5XX owners have discovered a weak IRED (=IR-LED), it can be seen glowing via camera but output is too low for Roomba to use, which once replaced restored the Bump Switch and halted the 9-beeps error.
and wrote:...Test 3+4 "Cliff Sensors":
Outer & Inner Cliff Sensors passed.
Test 5-7 "Lighttouch sensors": All tests failed. Without the plastic-cover (bumper) I tested the 5 IR-LED with my digital-camera: All LEDs lit.
There are six. Perhaps tests failed because you did not position a IR scattering material at appropriate range and orientation to make fractions of the emitted IR radiance get returned to the photo-transistor, (PT), mate of each sensor 'module'.
and wrote:I ... opened the plastic housing from the bumper-sensors and checked it for dirt. Then I used a 3V cell with a 100 Ohm-resistor and my digital-camera to check the IR-LEDs of the bumper, with success.
"3V cell with a 100 Ohm" would develop a representative IRED current if applied to a single IRED. If you applied the three volts (through the 100 ohms) to the harness connector sockets then both Bump-Switch IREDs would be powered at about half their nominal operating current; and, would be dimmer than normal -- which is good to the extent that you did verify them to be emitting. However, a better test would be to group the left & right Bump-Switch PCAs close enough so both can be viewed by the camera at once, and then estimate whether visual "brightness" is nominally identical for both. Roomba's Right Bump-Switch IRED should appear dimmer than its Left-IRED.
and wrote: Also I tried to check the regarding photo-diode: I used a multimeter in diode-test-mode. ...
A preferable tactic would be to connect a dummy collector load resistor (4k < Rc < 6k) to a PT-under-test's collector pin, bias the VCC end of the resistor with about 5V (add one more cell to your 3V pack), and then use your DVM to measure dV collector to emitter as IR radiance (or visual luminance) become incident on the PT's lens. Vc should pull down very low when the PT is illuminated, or rise to VCC when dark (shut off your room lights).

I think another way of doing that sort of test would be to use the 9V source in your DMM when in Resistance Mode. Start with the DMM set to a high resistance range, connect its plus-voltage probe to the PT's collector and minus probe to the emitter, and try the illumination trials. Go to lower range settings as needed to obtain reasonable Vc changes (as indicated by effective resistance (collector current)) swings.
So far... I think we have a problem with the main-pcb.
I'll be very surprised if that notion becomes confirmed.
Has anyone a suggestion or some links to useful pages?...
I gave you one, and a hint to help find others. Based on further discoveries by your continued testing I will dig out other applicable links to post.
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby sweetie-pie » March 8th, 2012, 3:40 am

Gordon wrote:There is one link there that gives a good start for fixing 9-beeps.

Yes, I did of course... one week ago I never heard about the build in test(BIT), nor all the different sensors... our Roomba "simply" worked... so this was a good and useful start. :D

Gordon wrote: ...Many 5XX owners have discovered a weak IRED (=IR-LED), it can be seen glowing via camera but output is too low for Roomba to use, which once replaced restored the Bump Switch and halted the 9-beeps error.

Okay, this makes sense: Yesterday I disassembled the robot one more time and figured out the whole sensor cabling. After I assembled it again, I started the BIT again and measured with my DVM the photo-diode voltages directly on the PCB at the connector (J12 I think).
For the working bumper I measured: 0,7 V Low-Level / 4,9 V High-Level
For the the other bumper I measured: 1,4 V Low-Level / 4,9 V High-Level
Okay, 1,4V is to much. I tried to pull down the value with a external resistor. This worked, so the PCB should be okay... :thumbup:
I will try to find some equal IR components. I cant find the components listed here http://www.schneordesign.com/Avi/irobot/roomba_mod2.htm at our local electronic shops in Germany, and digikey takes 18€ postage if you order for less than 65€. :shock:

Gordon wrote:There are six.

You're right...

Perhaps tests failed because you did not position a IR scattering material at appropriate range and orientation to make fractions of the emitted IR radiance get returned to the photo-transistor, (PT), mate of each sensor 'module'.

First I used my flat hand and another time I used some white plastic... I will verify it this evening again... and try to measure the voltage over the PTs.

:thanks: for your help...

sweetie-pie
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby victor560 » March 8th, 2012, 12:50 pm

cost is always an issue.

a used roomba is how much? (think spare parts...)

all the light-touch photo transistors failing at the same time
is rare.

I would fix the bumper sensor and test the roomba.
this much you know is failed and the price of the repair is not high.

then test for the light-touch sensor array.
check the wires to the photo transistors for a common to all
failure.
your roomba may have had this failure for some time.

and I often see this part on e-bay for about 10 usd.

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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby Gordon » March 8th, 2012, 12:57 pm

sweetie-pie wrote:...I will try to find some equal IR components. I cant find the components listed here http://www.schneordesign.com/Avi/irobot/roomba_mod2.htm at our local electronic shops in Germany, ...
There used to be a http://www.rswww.com in Germany, but when I executed that address via my USA access I became connected to uk.rs-online.com. Close enough I thought, so I searched the site for IR emitter and found this side-looker packaged IRED in a multi-page list of IREDs: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ir-led/1714750/

It will probably work for you, however, I think you will find its lens is positioned a mm or two higher than what the original IRED/PTs' central line-of-sight is, hence to optimize IR signal coupling you may wish to tilt the new IRED towards the old PT, and to tilt (as feasible) the original PT away from the new IRED (so their planar faces are ~//, and lens centers are on a common line).

You might also continue looking at pages beyond the one I stopped at. uk.rs-online.com might even stock the EVERLIGHT component.

{After posting the above I did continue looking, stopping at page 11 when PTs took over the list. I reviewed numerous IRED side-looker options. I can't take time to summarize my observations, but think you should evaluate (i.e., inspect & compare characteristics found in their data sheets) before buying samples. To condense the 10-page list use this search string at uk.RS: ir SL emitter.}

:thanks: for your help... sweetie-pie
Welcome!
P.S. Don't dally, UK.RS threatens this W/E hiatus:
Attachments
UK.RSmaintenance.jpg
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby sweetie-pie » March 8th, 2012, 3:55 pm

Gordon wrote:There used to be a http://www.rswww.com in Germany, but when I executed that address via my USA access I became connected to uk.rs-online.com. Close enough I thought, so I searched the site for IR emitter and found this side-looker packaged IRED in a multi-page list of IREDs: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ir-led/1714750/

Thanks for your efforts... http://de.rs-online.com seems to be a good source for electronic components, but meanwhile I placed an order at a german distributor http://www.reichelt.de. I ordered the following components:
http://www.reichelt.de/Fotodioden-etc-/LPT-80/index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=3045&ARTICLE=60550&SHOW=1&START=0&OFFSET=16&
http://www.reichelt.de/Fotodioden-etc-/IRL-81-A/index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=3045&ARTICLE=60591&SHOW=1&START=0&OFFSET=16&
I will report if these components will work...

Also I verified the Light touch Sensors again and today I used a white plastic card. The first time Tests 5 to 7 are passed with success. After playing around with some other tests, I tried it again, and the test failed. :?
I exit the test mode, started again, test failed. I exit again, wait for a while, read some post here and tried it again: Success. I'm a little bit confused...

I think I will wait for the spare-parts, assemble the robot and will try it to run, as victor560 suggested...

Thanks
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby victor560 » March 8th, 2012, 5:23 pm

this is a usa ebay item number
270920018267

the photo transistors come with it...

v
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby Gordon » March 8th, 2012, 5:42 pm

sweetie-pie wrote:...I ordered the following components: ...LPT-80...{AND}...IRL-81-A...I will report if these components will work...
I looked at the IRL-81 but not the PT. If both are substituted for the original components the Bump-SW should function OK. As I scanned the IRL-81's datasheet I noticed Vf(If=20mA) is stated to be "1.5V". Most often I have seen GaAlAs IREDs to have a ~1.2V Vf at 20mA. Once you get the IREDs installed and powered ON, you might want to measure Vf across each IRED to verify it to be as high as 1.2V. If not 1.2V, or 1.5V, then current may not be 20mA (which is what I have seen iRobot establish in prior Roombas, and Scooba).
Also I verified the Light touch Sensors again and today I used a white plastic card. The first time Tests 5 to 7 are passed with success. After playing around with some other tests, I tried it again, and the test failed. :? ...
Those mixed results can be due to lack of orientation and position of the scattering surface. Do not assume each LT sensor to be staring out along lines of sight that are radial to the Bumper curvature. They don't point that way. With Bumper shell dismounted study each IRED/PT LT sensor combination to estimate its pointing vector. Sketch a map of those positions and pointing axes and then repeat the LT BiTs by using the 'map' to guide your placement & tilting of your hand-held target.

I have not determined each of the six ranges, but a WAG might be fairly short, when return signals maximize, say between 20 to 40mm (based on where the intersections of central axes of each IRED & PT pair intersect), but they could sense objects somewhat further away.
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby sweetie-pie » March 10th, 2012, 2:51 pm

sweetie-pie wrote:...I ordered the following components: ...LPT-80...{AND}...IRL-81-A...I will report if these components will work...

The parts arrived today. I first substituted the original components in the defective Bump-SW. Tested it: function OK. I tested the other Bumper-SW and now: No function... :evil:
I measured the voltage from the PT an its now 1,4V to 0,7V before. I think you were right with Vf=1,5V may be higher than the orignals... however I ordered some additional part, so I exchange also these ones... and: *TATA* IT WORKS... :dance: The low Voltage is now about 0,2V at each PT...

Also the light touch-sensor worked correctly with the cover on it...why ever... :)

Thank you very much.... :thanks:

BTW: I enclosed a pdf with the cabling I figured out... maybe it will be useful for someone...
Attachments
roomba560_sensor_cabling.pdf
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby Gordon » March 10th, 2012, 5:44 pm

sweetie-pie wrote:... *TATA* IT WORKS... :dance: The low Voltage is now about 0,2V at each PT... Also the light touch-sensor worked correctly with the cover on it...why ever... :)...
Nice recovery sweetie-pie, and good work creating the pdf table. Its worth mentioning that you were able to pick off the contacts numbering applied by the connector mfr (HIROSE ELECTRIC, Ltd.). I.e., all odd numbers being aft of the even row (FWD in Roomba) of contacts, and with contact #1 located to Roomba's LEFT.

I did spot some details of interconnections of Bump-SW IREDs that I may ask about at a later time (can't get into it now); but do want to mention one omission in the pdf tables that you might like to know about. It was discovered / reported on page-2 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15647&start=20
that interface J10/P10, (contacts #1 & #2), bring the caster-wheel's stasis IRED into series with the Light-Touch left-half-string of IREDs! That was mysterious for a few days.
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby Xamindar » March 6th, 2018, 7:09 am

My Roomba just started doing this 9 beep error with the right bumper. But it only starts after running for a while, then it will not work at all until the roomba has "rested" or recharged.

Can anyone explain why it works fine at first start then stops after a while?
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby vic7767 » March 6th, 2018, 5:23 pm

Every time the Roomba shuts down all sensor info is reset. Until the sensor is triggered again the Roomba will run.
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby Xamindar » March 7th, 2018, 4:59 am

vic7767 wrote:Every time the Roomba shuts down all sensor info is reset. Until the sensor is triggered again the Roomba will run.

I have gone through the built in test and the bumbers work fine. Then I run the roomba until it throws the error 9 (it doesn't always throw the error, sometimes it completes its cleaning run just fine). Once it throws the error, I run the built in test and the right bumper is no longer working. It seems intermittent.
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Re: Roomba 560 9 Beep error / sensor fault

Postby vic7767 » March 7th, 2018, 11:08 am

Intermittent failures are difficult to resolve. IR bumper failures are a high runner failure within the 500 models. Normally the IE Emitter quits working and creates a hard fault. You might consider disassembly of the bumper sensor and inspect it for possible mechanical failure. Also consider replacement of the bumper sensor IR emitter and receiver.
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