Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

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Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 12th, 2016, 6:02 pm

Continuing from viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19439 (So I don't swamp the topic).

To summarize, The roomba I got form Ebay with Charging error 3.

Reflowed the area around U14, U15 and U8 rid the error 3, but not the temperature sensing. I followed this topic as it was almost identical to my charging issue, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16402&start=20, but came inconclusive. Right, left wheel and CHM has current sensing fails, but do turn on in both directions.

I've replaced
U8
MCU

R337
R336
R324
R272
R276
R277
R274
R275

D19

C112


Readings taken
D58 = 0.531 V
D46 = 0.165V

-Q18
C124 = 2 nf
R276 = 19.88k
R277 = 18.11k
D17 = 0.712
D18 = 0.711

-Q17
C123 = 5 nf
R274 = 19.88k
R275 = 17.77k
D15 = 0.711
D16 = 0.713

R314 = 14.93k
R49 = 9.92k
R235 = 0.5
R257 = 0.5

R52 = 46o
R317 = 8.27K
R316 = 10K
R461 = 1K
7.2V on U8 VCC

BiT test:
SUMMARY: (left-drive-current-ok?) FAIL mA -3 min -150 max -75 mV 15084 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: (right-drive-current-ok?) FAIL mA -154 min -150 max -75 mV 14973 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: (main-brush-current-ok?) FAIL mA 53 min -500 max -200 mV 14723 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: (vacuum-current-ok?) FAIL mA 10 min -350 max -150 mV 15196 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: (int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) FAIL mA -2 min 250 max 350 mV 15725 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: (int-charging-current-ok?) FAIL mA 0 min 750 max 1400 mV 15752 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: (int-charging-trickle-current-ok?) FAIL mA 0 min 40 max 70 mV 15752 degrees-C 26
SUMMARY: fs-header-crc-passed? FAIL


No battery, just charger:
charger-wakeup
slept for 0 minutes 1 seconds
start-charge: 2010-06-08-1628-L
do-charging-checking-fets @ minutes 0
bat: min 0 sec 1 mV 5872 mA 8 tenths-deg-C -182 mAH 2696 state 1
Charging FET test passed.
do-charging-wait-initial @ minutes 0
bat: min 0 sec 2 mV 8043 mA 8 tenths-deg-C -185 mAH 2696 state 2
bat: min 0 sec 3 mV 9073 mA 8 tenths-deg-C -186 mAH 2696 state 2
bat: min 0 sec 4 mV 9490 mA 8 tenths-deg-C -186 mAH 2696 state 2
languages: english (0)
charging-error 1
charging-error 1


Schematics used:

Temperature:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16402&start=20

Charging:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15704
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 12th, 2016, 6:48 pm

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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 12th, 2016, 7:25 pm

Thanks! I took some readings from the U8

1 - 2.65
2 - 2.65
3 - 2.65
4 - 7.2
5 - 1.2
6 - 1.245
7 - 1.245
8 - 2.595
9 - 2.595
10 - 2.59
11 - 0.07
12 - 1.05
13 - 0.487
14 - 6.52

Roomba was powered on from the battery.

The U8 chip was already replaced from a donor (That only had H-bridge failure).
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 12th, 2016, 7:40 pm

A4 pins 12,13&14 are way off. That throws off A1 pins 1,2,3.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 12th, 2016, 10:00 pm

Without a schematic, finding where the A4 pins get their data from will be very difficult. Using the fault data, been mostly a very low current sense for the left wheel, CHM and charging error 3, something must have failed around the area on the left of the PCB. I'm not sure where the current sensing is done for each h-bridge, but it's best to start there, so the robot can be safely run without committing suicide by getting stuck.

Is their any info on the current sensing for the left, right wheel and CHM? I did see a driver schematic (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16618) but the sensing just tapers off.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 12th, 2016, 10:10 pm

R96 is the right wheel current sense resistor. R235//R257 labeled R100 are the total system current sense resistors. They feed the voltage to U8, A4 Quad Op Amp. All the H bridges are set up physically the same on the board. The other current sense resistors are configured the same as the right wheels, R96.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 12th, 2016, 10:38 pm

Right
R96 = 0.5

CHM
R85 = 101.8
R149 = 0.5
R147 = 466.5

Left
R73 = 0.4 - 0.3


I measured
1K from pin 12 to R235
1K from pin 13 to R235
13.31K from pin 14 to R235

R255 = 12.33K

From the U8

Edit:
Detailed BiT data
factory-test 11 battery-sensors
(battery-voltage-ok?) PASS
(battery-temperature-ok?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -223 min -270 max -220 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 PASS

factory-test 12 left-wheel
not (left-wheel-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -221 min -270 max -220 mV 16504 degrees-C 27 PASS
(drive-speed-ok? left forward) PASS
(drive-speed-ok? right stopped) PASS
(left-drive-current-ok?) mA -3 min -150 max -75 mV 16476 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (left-wheel-stall?) PASS
wait: (left-wheel-stall?)

factory-test 13 right-wheel
not (right-wheel-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -220 min -270 max -220 mV 16448 degrees-C 27 PASS
(drive-speed-ok? left stopped) PASS
(drive-speed-ok? right forward) PASS
(right-drive-current-ok?) mA -154 min -150 max -75 mV 16393 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (right-wheel-stall?) PASS
wait: (right-wheel-stall?)

factory-test 16 main-brush
not (main-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -220 min -270 max -220 mV 16448 degrees-C 27 PASS
(main-brush-current-ok?) mA -1 min -500 max -200 mV 16337 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (main-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(main-brush-current-ok?) mA -1 min -500 max -200 mV 16337 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (main-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
wait: (main-brush-motor-stall?)


factory-test 19 side-brush
not (side-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -220 min -270 max -220 mV 16420 degrees-C 27 PASS
not (side-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(side-brush-current-ok?) mA -65 min -120 max -30 mV 16393 degrees-C 27 PASS
not (side-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(side-brush-current-ok?) mA -62 min -120 max -30 mV 16393 degrees-C 27 PASS
wait: (side-brush-motor-stall?)

factory-test 20 int-charger-recovery
not (internal-charger-available?) PASS
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA 14 min 250 max 350 mV 16504 degrees-C 27 FAIL


factory-test 21 int-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-current-ok?) mA 16 min 750 max 1400 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 FAIL


factory-test 22 int-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-trickle-current-ok?) mA 16 min 40 max 70 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 FAIL


factory-test 23 charger-watchdog
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-watchdog-current-ok?) mA 22 min -31 max 31 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 PASS
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 14th, 2016, 3:43 pm

BITs 20 thru 23 need charger plugged into Roomba side jack and good battery installed. 24 thru 26, Roomba on dock.
U18 quad comparator A4 out pin 13 needs to be low to turn on Q12.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 14th, 2016, 4:10 pm

I'm sure it's something to do with current sensing of the charger, left wheel and CHM. I'm not sure what op amps do those readings.. for BiT 20 -> 23 charger was plugged in, no current detected - yet Fet tests pass..

As the system current, voltage and temperature is been detected and are been displayed (Referencing from my working roomba) I think U8 isn't the issue, even tho their's a bad reading on A4. Something further down the line is faulty.. Going to be like poking a labyrinth with a stick.

Edit:
The suspected area of issues
IMG_20160814_211611.jpg


I have a feeling Roomba won't turn on Q17 because it can see a charger, but no current.

Edit:
BiT 11 seems to test U8 as a whole.

Found this:
viewtopic.php?p=94579 - Got probing to do to find where R73 goes off to.. May have a mini-schematic in a few hours.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 14th, 2016, 5:10 pm

baseline battery current................................Battery
left / right drive current................................Wheel
left / right stall current.................................Wheel
main brush run current..................................Brush
main brush stall current.................................Brush
vacuum current...........................................Battery
side brush run current...................................Side Brush
side brush stall current..................................Side Brush
Internal/external charging recovery current.........Battery
Internal/external charging current.....................Battery
Internal/external charging trickle current............Battery

All electrical constants labeled battery get their current source read by SysRtn, R235//R257. They feed OpAmp U8 A4 which feeds reference to MCU.
Last edited by a1robotrepair on August 14th, 2016, 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 14th, 2016, 6:21 pm

After some probing, got this far.
Screenshot_18.png
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 14th, 2016, 8:35 pm

Quick update:

I've traced a 5V line on J17.. getting quite deep now. My schematic is getting very big.. and messy.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 14th, 2016, 9:09 pm

Current progress.
Screenshot_19.png


Edit:
Screenshot_21.png
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 14th, 2016, 9:29 pm

You have ventured into other systems thru system return. I am trying to figure out why you're trying to trace the left wheel current sense when in your previous post it passed, barely, but if the wheel is old it will draw more current.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 14th, 2016, 9:56 pm

(left-drive-current-ok?) mA -3 min -150 max -75 mV 16476 degrees-C 27 FAIL
(main-brush-current-ok?) mA -1 min -500 max -200 mV 16337 degrees-C 27 FAIL
(int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA 14 min 250 max 350 mV 16504 degrees-C 27 FAIL

Mapping the area so a clearer picture can be seen. Pretty much wondering off into the unknown. I do now know that the left wheel goes through U18 and U14.

Edit:

Plugged my bench power supply in, noticed a 137 - 197 mAh draw when in sleep. Something is running when it is not supposed to. Also, failing to boot. Letting it run with that load, hoping to see which chip is the warmest.


bl-start
STR730
bootloader id: #x47144D60 ADFFDFFF
bootloader info rev: #xF000
bootloader rev: #x0001
2007-05-14-1715-L
Roomba by iRobot!
str730
2010-06-08-1628-L
battery-current-zero 253

2010-06-08-1628-L
r3_robot/tags/release-3.1.1:4159 CLEAN

bootloader id: 4714 4D60 ADFF DFFF

assembly: 3.3
revision: 0
flash version: 0
flash info crc passed: 0


processor-sleep


Edit:
Bench power supply current limit was triggered, 400 mAh, LEDs blinking like a disco. Think it's dead. On a side note, U14 was the warmest.

Edit:
Physically removed U14, sleep current now at 160 mAh. CPU boots via serial data, no sound or LED's.

Edit:
Warmest chips now are U4, U5, U9, U10
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 15th, 2016, 7:08 am

LazyRoomba wrote:
Right
R96 = 0.5

CHM
R85 = 101.8
R149 = 0.5
R147 = 466.5

Left
R73 = 0.4 - 0.3


I measured
1K from pin 12 to R235
1K from pin 13 to R235
13.31K from pin 14 to R235

R255 = 12.33K

From the U8

Edit:
Detailed BiT data
factory-test 11 battery-sensors
(battery-voltage-ok?) PASS
(battery-temperature-ok?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -223 min -270 max -220 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 PASS

factory-test 12 left-wheel
not (left-wheel-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -221 min -270 max -220 mV 16504 degrees-C 27 PASS
(drive-speed-ok? left forward) PASS
(drive-speed-ok? right stopped) PASS
(left-drive-current-ok?) mA -3 min -150 max -75 mV 16476 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (left-wheel-stall?) PASS
wait: (left-wheel-stall?)

factory-test 13 right-wheel
not (right-wheel-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -220 min -270 max -220 mV 16448 degrees-C 27 PASS
(drive-speed-ok? left stopped) PASS
(drive-speed-ok? right forward) PASS
(right-drive-current-ok?) mA -154 min -150 max -75 mV 16393 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (right-wheel-stall?) PASS
wait: (right-wheel-stall?)

factory-test 16 main-brush
not (main-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -220 min -270 max -220 mV 16448 degrees-C 27 PASS
(main-brush-current-ok?) mA -1 min -500 max -200 mV 16337 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (main-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(main-brush-current-ok?) mA -1 min -500 max -200 mV 16337 degrees-C 27 FAIL
not (main-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
wait: (main-brush-motor-stall?)


factory-test 19 side-brush
not (side-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(baseline-current-ok?) mA -220 min -270 max -220 mV 16420 degrees-C 27 PASS
not (side-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(side-brush-current-ok?) mA -65 min -120 max -30 mV 16393 degrees-C 27 PASS
not (side-brush-motor-stall?) PASS
(side-brush-current-ok?) mA -62 min -120 max -30 mV 16393 degrees-C 27 PASS
wait: (side-brush-motor-stall?)

factory-test 20 int-charger-recovery
not (internal-charger-available?) PASS
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-recovery-current-ok?) mA 14 min 250 max 350 mV 16504 degrees-C 27 FAIL


factory-test 21 int-charger-on
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-current-ok?) mA 16 min 750 max 1400 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 FAIL


factory-test 22 int-charger-trickle
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-trickle-current-ok?) mA 16 min 40 max 70 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 FAIL


factory-test 23 charger-watchdog
wait-true-for-half-second: (internal-charger-available?)
(int-charging-watchdog-current-ok?) mA 22 min -31 max 31 mV 16532 degrees-C 27 PASS


This is the data I was looking at.
See post:http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16618 for info on those chips. Move to the right wheel as there is already a schematic.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 15th, 2016, 7:22 am

One end of R115 is directly connected to the MCU, pin 25
R101 (Left wheel) is directly connected to the MCU pin 92

Edit:
I now realise I'm going in the wrong direction, probing through what seems to be the driving circuits for the h-bridges and charging.

Edit:
I probed U18's pin 13, it is been pulled low with the charger plugged in. 6 volts without charger plugged in and on standby.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 15th, 2016, 8:23 am

Tried probing the end of R49, but it kept throwing roomba into charging error 1.. so no reading. It is low without the charger.

Edit:
Probed Q20 and Q21, they're low with or without the charger. Also, probing triggers charging error 1.

Edit:
Not sure which is which, I'll reference from you schematic.

No charger
Q23 -> 4.9V to U4 (Also triggers roomba dead battery sound and probed with voltage)
Q23 -> low (MCU)
Q23 -> low R315

Charger
Q23 -> 4.9V to U4 (triggers charger error 1)
Q23 -> low (MCU)
Q23 -> low R315 (Triggers charging error 1)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15704#p137432

Note:
After probing Q23, I now get
bat: min 34 sec 22 mV 15919 mA -16 tenths-deg-C -189 mAH -2 state 5

(Note the missing battery current)

Reset the roomba now goes into charging error 1 all the time.
bat: min 0 sec 7 mV 15892 mA 0 tenths-deg-C -189 mAH 2696 state 5


Edit:
Fresh battery, measured 3K on the thermistor terminals on the PCB. -18.9.C.

Edit:
Measured 5.3 volts at R461 (download/file.php?id=5513&mode=view) and 3.3K on the thermistor.

Edit:
From Q23 (U4)

R299 -> R352
C196 -> pin 4 U19
C195 -> pin 4 U19
R351

U19 seems to do PWM
*Might be the wrong datasheet
http://www.atmel.com/images/atmel-8720- ... asheet.pdf

atmel 512 24c828n 6u18

Having to probe down the route as I think my multimeter lead slipped and shorted onto R299. What ever damage has been done, seems to affect the temperature and voltage checking. U8 might be on the route, as when a charger is plugged in, the battery voltage jumps upto 17 - 18 volts while charging.


Edit:

R299 -> U8

A1
16K -> 1
16K -> 2
10K -> 3

9K -> 4

A2
90K -> 5
2.5M -> 6
17.3M -> 7

A3
17.5M -> 8
17.2M -> 9
24K -> 10

574 -> 11

A4
1.7K -> 12
1.8K -> 13
16.3K -> 14


I may have found the source for A4. Is it possible that A4 is in charge of monitoring charging current?

My initial readings show their's an issue on A4.

12 - 1.05
13 - 0.487
14 - 6.52
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby a1robotrepair » August 15th, 2016, 12:54 pm

Yes
a1robotrepair wrote:baseline battery current................................Battery
left / right drive current................................Wheel
left / right stall current.................................Wheel
main brush run current..................................Brush
main brush stall current.................................Brush
vacuum current...........................................Battery
side brush run current...................................Side Brush
side brush stall current..................................Side Brush
Internal/external charging recovery current.........Battery
Internal/external charging current.....................Battery
Internal/external charging trickle current............Battery

All electrical constants labeled battery get their current source read by SysRtn, R235//R257. They feed OpAmp U8 A4 which feeds reference to MCU.
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Re: Roomba 530 - charge err 3 and current sense fail

Postby LazyRoomba » August 15th, 2016, 12:57 pm

Noticed my donor board has slight differences. I'll verify my findings on a second donor and the defective PCB itself. I''ll create a schematic starting at Q23 - as this isn't been switched on and was shorted with R299.
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