Dyson 360 Eye

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby djos » September 4th, 2014, 8:01 pm

prolly just the companies Lawyers trying to justify their pay checks. :D
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 5th, 2014, 4:42 am

robotreviews wrote:I find it hard to believe that they would offer such a specific disclaimer unless they were aware of something that would make it demonstrably false enough for them to have to make that specific diclaimer.


Many accu dustbusters generates more than 20 air watts of suction power already. I don't even think about Dyson's dustbusters...why robo-vacs of other manufacturers couldn't do that too in the soon time? Dyson 360 Eye might be 'strongest' on the robot market in the July of 2014 but who will stop tech progress beyond that date?

E.g. in the meantime, two other robo-vacs came across - Samsung POWERbot and Vorwerk VR200. Dyson simply has this right to think that his robot would not be always the 'strongest' on the market if it comes to suction....is it something 'strange' to think like that? Personally, I think it's good stand in these 'fast-forwarding' times. Why many people still believes that Dyson's vacs are 'the best' on the market if they're not? Many independent testing prove that fact already.

Btw Dyson choose the 'worst' robo-vac to comparative tests in the promo video. They should compare it with 'the best' on the market like Roomba 800 series or Neato Botvac series. But they choose that something...I even don't recognize any specific manufacturer. It looks like 'china-vac', so the results are what they are.
Last edited by piokrza on September 5th, 2014, 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby assuncap » September 5th, 2014, 4:52 am

piokrza wrote:Why many people still believes that their vacs are 'the best' on the market if they're not? Many independent testing prove that fact already.

Are you talking about a company that used to innovate and now mostly "innovates" on there marketing and listing price. I thought... ok maybe not. :think: :lol:
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby iMayne » September 5th, 2014, 5:12 am

We have been watching this new invention from the start and now we are excited about this product. At last iRobot has a competitor to watch and get on their thinking cap to invent something better.

I agree with Dyson about the spinning side brush and the small width cleaning head. Good on you Dyson we cant wait to test your product. Shame that Japan gets it first.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 5th, 2014, 5:12 am

assuncap wrote:Are you talking about a company that used to innovate and now mostly "innovates" on there marketing and listing price. I thought... ok maybe not. :think: :lol:


If the 'innovation' are their cyclones which are btw used by many other manufacturers, like e.g. DirtDevil and extremely high prices then it really must be some type of 'innovation'. Especially, if that 'project' took more than decade, 26 million pounds, more than few thousands of engineers involved with this...but they forgot about reducing its horrible noise? about lowering its profile to let it go under kitchen toe kicks or living room sofa? please... that project reminds me of these first bots which came a decade ago (Electrolux Trilobite, Karcher RC-3000) - they was so bulky in their dimensions and pack short-working-time battery. They were not meant to clean entire house, having on mind specific type of furnitures. If it comes to price it is definitely not addressed to the masses. Others do, like iRobot, making a full range of robots with different prices dedicated to all needs of different customers.

Next...anybody just thought why Japan is the first market to get luck on this toy?
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mofan » September 5th, 2014, 8:24 am

The more I think about this, the more amazed I am about how much Dyson skimped on the battery. I understand that the Roombas are 33 Watt machines, and the Dyson appears to be 100 watts. So, the Dyson uses exactly three times more power. So if the Dyson had the power requirements of the Roomba, it would run for 60-90 minutes (taking the 20-30 run time and multiplying by three). That suggests that Dyson actually put in a less powerful battery than the Roomba has. I find that amazing for a robot that will cost at least $1000 when it launches. I would have thought that the Dyson battery would have twice the capacity of the Roomba.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mofan » September 5th, 2014, 8:36 am

Investors do not appear to be overly worried about the Dyson robot. Ever since the teaser trailer last week, Irobot's stock had been falling, but yesterday Irobot's stock rose significantly. I found an article in which investors discuss their belief that Irobot will not be significantly hurt by yesterday's announcement, for many of the reasons that we have discussed, such as the higher price and the inability of the Dyson to get under kickboards and furniture. The analyst also notes that Dyson's perceived advantage in its navigation technology will likely be a moot point once the next generation Roomba is introduced with its own camera navigation technology:

http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Dysons+Entry+Into+Home+Robot+Market+Validates+iRobot+(IRBT)+and+Category+-+Needham+%26+Company/9807644.html
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 5th, 2014, 8:37 am

In order to get the suction he desires he had to limit the width of the cleaning head. And since he wanted that full width he was forced to shrink the robot.

Combined with his requirement for cyclones, he had almost no room left for batteries.

When designing a robot, everything wants to be in the same place.

It's incredibly hard, and forces compromises.

No happen to think he has chosen the wrong ones. But I agree, this much time and this many engineers/money

Was this designed in US congress haha?
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 5th, 2014, 8:42 am

I noticed that too Mofan ( since I'm stock holder I had more than a little interest haha)

By the time Dyson hits Us market the next roomba with Nav will be out. And just as Neato you can boost power at that time.

Dyson actually helps here. They set a higher ceiling in terms if price for iRobot to work under, while their marketing brings robot vacuums to the mainstream.

It's actually a win win for them
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mofan » September 5th, 2014, 8:53 am

Third_deg:

Do you think that the next Roomba will have a more powerful vacuum since it will navigate more like the Dyson? If the Roomba is no longer covering the floor an average of four times and can clean much more quickly, one would think that Irobot would have to compensate somehow with more powerful suction to avoid degraded cleaning performance. Even a lousy vacuum picks up most stuff if it makes four passes over the carpet.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 5th, 2014, 9:17 am

Limitation is bin volume actually. The boost in cleaning efficacy of the 880 quickly demonstrated this to us (fills the bin faster than earlier models even with a 60% boost in bin volume)

Said another way, cleaning power boost needs auto evac to go with it.

That's why in real homes, people will quickly tire of the Dyson.

IRobot is smart enough to stay ahead of the curve here.
As some have suggested, just needed the right foe to turn the dial another notch or two.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mofan » September 5th, 2014, 9:27 am

Agreed. I have criticized Irobot many times on this forum over the years going back to 2011, but only because I felt like Irobot was resting on its laurels a bit. When they talked about the new navigation technology at the analyst day in May, my sense was that Irobot was ready to roll out the technology even then, but was choosing not to because it did not need to, since there was no viable market competition. I actually hope that the Dyson turns out to be a big hit, because that will make for healthy competition between the two companies, and we the consumer will undoubtedly benefit from that.

Good point about the bin, by the way. The average consumer (unlike people on this forum) detests having to do regular maintenance on a vacuum. How will consumers react when they find out that they have to empty the Dyson bin every time they use it? We have a Roomba and my wife is perfectly willing to use it, but any time she gets the "clean brushes" error (which is often on our 560) she refuses to use it any more until I clean the brushes.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby assuncap » September 5th, 2014, 9:54 am

piokrza wrote:If the 'innovation' are their cyclones which are btw used by many other manufacturers, like e.g. DirtDevil and extremely high prices then it really must be some type of 'innovation'. Especially, if that 'project' took more than decade, 26 million pounds, more than few thousands of engineers involved with this...but they forgot about reducing its horrible noise? about lowering its profile to let it go under kitchen toe kicks or living room sofa? please... that project reminds me of these first bots which came a decade ago (Electrolux Trilobite, Karcher RC-3000) - they was so bulky in their dimensions and pack short-working-time battery. They were not meant to clean entire house, having on mind specific type of furnitures. If it comes to price it is definitely not addressed to the masses. Others do, like iRobot, making a full range of robots with different prices dedicated to all needs of different customers.

Next...anybody just thought why Japan is the first market to get luck on this toy?


Look I am not saying that dyson is innovating, most of the stuff on the 360eye is a repackaging. What I'm saying is that IRobot has been doing almost nothing new since the 500 series came out. That was about 7-8 years ago. It's not because they don't have the resources to do so, is just because they own the market. They want to squeeze all the money they can from there customers. That sort of approach IMHO is an insult to consumers.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby assuncap » September 5th, 2014, 10:07 am

mofan wrote:Agreed. I have criticized Irobot many times on this forum over the years going back to 2011, but only because I felt like Irobot was resting on its laurels a bit.

A bit is an understatement. They don't even make an effort. They have WIFI ready to ship on the bots for ages, instead they put those stupid remotes, that use similar technology by the way. It feels like the marketing dep is holding back the engineering dep. Those poor guys from engineering most be boring them self's to death.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby assuncap » September 5th, 2014, 10:15 am

third_deg wrote:IRobot is smart enough to stay ahead of the curve here.
As some have suggested, just needed the right foe to turn the dial another notch or two.

Yeah I heard that before... many times. Remember Nokia, Sony, Hoover... the list goes on and on. A (technology) company has to stay sharp, otherwise they will be playing catch up for ever.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mofan » September 5th, 2014, 10:41 am

I was trying to be nice, but yes, Irobot has been resting on its laurels more than "a bit." The motto of the company is "profitable growth" rather than "cutting-edge innovation" or even "profitable innovation" and the results of the last few years demonstrate that the focus is on profits rather than innovation. The 400 series in 2004 was a leap forward, as was the 500 series in 2007, but since that time, the improvements have been very incremental, except perhaps for the recent brushless design, which isn't even a robotics innovation per se. We all hoped that Neato would catalyze more innovation, but they haven't had enough of a market impact to do so. Hopefully Dyson will finally be the catalyst.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Fraggboy » September 5th, 2014, 11:06 am

mofan wrote:I was trying to be nice, but yes, Irobot has been resting on its laurels more than "a bit." The motto of the company is "profitable growth" rather than "cutting-edge innovation" or even "profitable innovation" and the results of the last few years demonstrate that the focus is on profits rather than innovation. The 400 series in 2004 was a leap forward, as was the 500 series in 2007, but since that time, the improvements have been very incremental, except perhaps for the recent brushless design, which isn't even a robotics innovation per se. We all hoped that Neato would catalyze more innovation, but they haven't had enough of a market impact to do so. Hopefully Dyson will finally be the catalyst.


:agree:
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 5th, 2014, 11:28 am



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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Fraggboy » September 5th, 2014, 11:32 am

All of these videos are 'nice', but aren't practical.. :/ When it starts shipping out, we need to see 'real-World' experiences..

It's not hard to pick up white dust off of a hard surface.. ;)
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 5th, 2014, 11:43 am

Fraggboy wrote:All of these videos are 'nice', but aren't practical.. :/ When it starts shipping out, we need to see 'real-World' experiences..

It's not hard to pick up white dust off of a hard surface.. ;)


:thumbup:

I want to see this in corners.
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