Dyson 360 Eye

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 1st, 2016, 1:25 pm

Just for example, they don't even want to tell you what area can be covered by the machines on a single charge. Or how many units to buy for a palace. Drives major domos crazy.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Joshyp002 » August 1st, 2016, 2:17 pm

third_deg wrote:Carpet agitation is important. Which rotational axis its agitated from is not. The goal is high static pressure and velocity as close to the carpet as possible, combined with agitation to draw sand from fibers lower than the surface, and keeping the vacuum engaged with an area as long as possible (A beater bar system is over the effected area for only 10ths of a second). My system changes that paradigm.
Wow that sounds very impressive I'm quite excited now I can't way. I've definitely been buying one no matter the price, any chance if you tell me if it's going to have mapping,ps I would Love it if could go up and down stairs or even better clean them. I understand if you can't say too much as it is a secret
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » August 1st, 2016, 2:19 pm

Stairs, yes, clean them, yes, map yes
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 1st, 2016, 11:55 pm

Dyson is revealing how useless are a lot review specialty websites in the way the robot is covered. They appear to be rehashes of company promotional material, basically advertising outlets. Case in point repeating that Dyson is the first to use a camera for guidance, when I think Samsung has done it a long time and the latest Roomba out some time has it as well. Some even imply Dyson is the only systematic guidance vacuum.

This is just like Neato Robotics touting systematic guidance after both iRobot and Samsung, maybe others, have already done it as well. We could coin a new saying: it's talcum powder... In software they used to say vaporware, except now confused with electronic cigarettes.

Dyson solicited volunteers to try the robot before release and I suspect a lot of "user" reviews are from those folks.
So what else is new. After all, it's the internet.
But what if all this junk actually drives sales? Can't argue with money.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby vic7767 » August 2nd, 2016, 12:12 am

The 360 became order-able in the US today so one is headed to my shop. We shall see how it behaves in the near future. It may get here before the Samsung 9350. Whichever arrives first gets its battery charged.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » August 2nd, 2016, 4:48 am

glnc222 wrote:Dyson solicited volunteers to try the robot before release and I suspect a lot of "user" reviews are from those folks... But what if all this junk actually drives sales?...

I think Dyson have honestly labelled any "sample product" reviews on their own site as being so - I only recall seeing one such label, and that wasn't a positive review.

For the record, the first 10 Botvac Connected reviews to appear on Amazon.co.uk at launch at the end of 2015 were all "free product samples" - 9 stupidly positive, 1 not. Many of the later, genuine reviews are far less positive. But since that first distribution of free samples, those reviews appear at the top (the review order is heavily weighted by how high up the reviewer rank the writer is) and any Amazon search for the competitor iRobot 980 actually brings up a Botvac Con as the FIRST listing ABOVE the 980. Contrived? I think so.

As an Amazon Top 500 reviewer myself, I get between 10 and 20 offers of "free sample" product every day. Of course sample product generates positive reviews, and of course that sells product, but I think there is a heightened realisation lately that many of these user reviews are contrived. From my direct discussions, many of these "Top Reviewers" are making a very profitable business out of it, with much of that product being immediately resold on Amazon Marketplace or Ebay (much of it labelled as "New, Sealed, Unopened"... go figure how a review was ever done!). Such a lack of integrity doesn't do the reviewer or the manufacturer any favours any more, which is why I no longer participate. Dyson may well seek genuine user feedback, but with their strong, positive brand image, I doubt they need to stoop so low just to drive sales and taint their brand in the process.

vic7767 wrote:The 360... is headed to my shop... It may get here before the Samsung 9350.

I'll be looking forward to that, as well as third_deg's launch. We're being spoilt with a lot of new-gen product this year!
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 2nd, 2016, 1:32 pm

An interesting set of Youtube reviews is from Spain, by robotsaldetalle, with a lot of separate videos comparing several brands in particular aspects, one of the best on navigation where limits of some of the models can be seen.
The Roomba 980 stands out there for instance. No Dyson yet.
Examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbJ8Hev-sFc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pBiAdhpdjk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5UbL2--0VE
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 6th, 2016, 4:54 pm

A french owner reported only about 350sq ft (35m2) coverage on a single charge, consistent prior analysis.
kelrobot.fr/forum. Also noted needs good lighting.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Joshyp002 » August 10th, 2016, 7:09 pm

third_deg wrote:Stairs, yes, clean them, yes, map yes
wow that's impressive, hope it's out Time for Christmas as that Word be the best present ever.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mseall » August 13th, 2016, 11:16 am

I’ve had a 360 for a month now, and it is great.

Previously I’ve had a Neato, which went back after 2 weeks after proving that it was completely useless at traversing our rugs. It would just grind away on them until the battery expired. Very disappointing, since the rugs were not anything special or unusual. A Neato rep agreed with me that the description “all floor types” wasn’t really accurate in this case.

More recently we had a Roomba 7xxx, which had very mixed success. On half of all occasions it would get itself stuck on the runners of our dining room chair legs, but the biggest issue was that the random navigation was useless for our 90 sqm open plan living space. It would bump around for a while, often not visiting entire areas, and then decide it was finished. One would often be hard pressed to tell that it had been in operation. The result was that we rarely bothered to use it.

On the other hand the Dyson has been great. It has had no trouble in navigating our slightly complex environment, always finds its way back to base, thoroughly covers everything, just about fits under the sofa and can get close up to the kitchen kickboards, has no trouble with the black rug that the Roomba would treat as an obstacle, cleans some of the smaller rugs that the Roomba would just push around, and leaves the floor so clean that my wife came home the first time and remarked that it looked just like the cleaning lady had been. That is about the highest accolade it can get,

Run time is around 45 mins, usually covering 45 sqm on the first go, the rest of the area after the first recharge, and then does a final sweep where it concentrates on the edges and making sure nothing has been missed. Last week a software update introduced a quiet mode which gives runtime of close to 1.5 hours and about 75 sqm. We will probably stick with that mode since the floor looked clean enough after one pass and it is quiet enough to run early in the morning while we are still asleep upstairs.

Overall I’m really happy with it and it is doing just what it said on the tin - much more that the Roomba and Neato ever did…
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » August 13th, 2016, 5:15 pm

When comparing Roombas it's good to compare a 980 / 960 (mapping robot). To other mapping robots. Obviously both of those are much cheaper than the Dyson and even the 960 runs much longer than 45 minutes.

I'm also very curious how a robot that's a inch taller than the toe kicks (Dyson) is able to clean them.

Also every robot has things that can cause issues. The Capet was not an issue for Roomba, but chair base was. Given time you may find some Dyson issues.

Anyway, good read and glad you are satisfied.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » August 14th, 2016, 3:55 am

Yes, but again third_deg, you're repeating the same American-centric arguments we had back in 2014... Kitchen toe-kicks are a standard 150mm/6" in many countries rather than the 4" you have in America, and for some the Roomba 980 isn't "much cheaper"... in the UK at least, the 980 is EXACTLY the same price as the Dyson 360 at £799.

As for run-time, there are many users on this forum where their robots needs more than 1 run to complete a clean - Roomba, Neato, LG, Samsung. A bigger battery to extend run-time would simply add more weight, physical bulk and cost, so perhaps for many a 45 minute battery is a good compromise? The extended 1.5hr run-time "quiet" option sounds like it could be a useful update for some, especially for those with hard-floors.

It seems clear to me that all these for/against arguments will be very specific and personal to the individual user and their own very unique environment.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » August 14th, 2016, 5:14 am

'Properly' - that's how Dyson handle threshold

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mseall » August 14th, 2016, 9:04 am

Haven't measured our toe kicks, but they are about half a centimeter taller than the Dyson.

The Roomba refused to go on to our black carpet and treated it like an obstacle. If I placed it on the the carpet msyself it would just say "error, move Roomba to a new location".

I'm sure the 9xx would do better due to the mapping, but I'm guessing it would still have gotten stuck on the chairs which are too low to 'see' and its lower sensors wouldn't have liked my carpet.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » August 14th, 2016, 12:44 pm

The Roomba cliff sensors can not tell the difference between your black carpet and a drop too far to recover from, and yes, unfortunately in Robotics, every design choice you make results in another that's an issue.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 14th, 2016, 2:04 pm

Perhaps the Dyson cliff sensors are set to allow a deeper drop as navigable than the other robots, tuned to its unique suspension. The exact properties of the black carpet has not been published. There could be a borderline condition there -- and variations among carpets. Originally the problem was reported on Roomba's and it seemed others not affected, but later reports of the same problem appeared for them as well. Samsung, in their fussy fashion, publishes the limitation in their manual -- a welcome forthrightness in the industry.
The problem with allowing the robot onto the black areas with a certain sensor setting is a consequent failure to detect the true cliffs. That is where things can be on a tricky borderline condition where the exact quality of the carpets matters. Lots of other black materials are well detected in IR. Whether there is a perfect setting remains unclear. It could pay to examine the Dyson setup.

[edit] There remains a simple fix for the machines stopped on black carpet, covering the cliff sensors for a faux floor and using physical barriers or other boundary methods supported for stairs etc.

The new quiet mode longer run time is significant since I have found carpets are cleaned with even lower suction. Without measurements I would be skeptical there is even much improvement in its standard higher suction mode.
Lots of nonlinear effects are involved.
The U.S. Dyson price came in lower than expected from other releases. Were all this clear when announced I might have waited to get one, being interested in the navigation ability on problem carpets, and not needing higher capacity. Industry practice seems to show it is best to wait for more info.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » August 15th, 2016, 7:01 am

For $999 it should work longer than 120min, charge faster than 3hrs, covers more than 6 rooms (50m2) and fits under all furnitures - like my 1/4 of this price Roomba 620 did.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mseall » August 15th, 2016, 7:48 am

piokrza wrote:For $999 it should work longer than 120min, charge faster than 3hrs, covers more than 6 rooms (50m2) and fits under all furnitures - like my 1/4 of this price Roomba 620 did.


For the hundreds of pounds I paid for my Roomba 7xx it should have had a greater than 25% probability that it might do more than 25% of my floor, and should have at least occasionally done more than 70% of the floor. Which it didn't. The Dyson is expensive, but I can leave in the morning and come home to a really clean floor quite reliably.

FYI in 90 mins it does around 70m2 (>50m2).
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 19th, 2016, 6:09 pm

fails bar stool test
Media review https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/19/dyson-360-eye-review/
it has issues with sloped pedestal stands for chairs, including ones found on my living room lounger, and those which support my kitchen bar height stools. The Dyson bot regularly tries to climb these, seems to hesitate about it halfway over the lip, and then essentially gives up, freezing

The bar stool problem, with curved spreading sides of metal bases, has long been reported on Neato's, even with videos. Mentioned in both German and French forums. Fix is lowering the bumper.
The Samsung Powerbot did not get trapped on bar stools as supplied, though needs other adjustments.
(If it did fail the case would probably be listed among all the restrictions openly admitted in their manual.)
I've seen no mention with Roomba's, but do any owners have that type of bar stool or care to write about it?
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby glnc222 » August 19th, 2016, 11:28 pm

Surprising number of traps, more than the infamous Powerbot (before fixing the wheel sensor).
The causes are not readily apparent.
Comparison with Roomba, video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SToyTNUpNI
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