Dyson 360 Eye

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby vic7767 » September 5th, 2014, 11:50 am

It reminds me of the Scooba 230 for some reason...... Maybe I'll adjust since it'll be a year before intro to the US.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby assuncap » September 5th, 2014, 12:31 pm

Fraggboy wrote:
mofan wrote:I was trying to be nice, but yes, Irobot has been resting on its laurels more than "a bit." The motto of the company is "profitable growth" rather than "cutting-edge innovation" or even "profitable innovation" and the results of the last few years demonstrate that the focus is on profits rather than innovation. The 400 series in 2004 was a leap forward, as was the 500 series in 2007, but since that time, the improvements have been very incremental, except perhaps for the recent brushless design, which isn't even a robotics innovation per se. We all hoped that Neato would catalyze more innovation, but they haven't had enough of a market impact to do so. Hopefully Dyson will finally be the catalyst.


:agree:

:agree: too
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 5th, 2014, 12:35 pm

In his hands it looks quite small...it can be a good brother for Scooby 230.




comparison with Roomba 880 which left dust in crevice and has more narrow cleaning path...Dyson is very slow imho

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby gregj » September 5th, 2014, 3:45 pm

wow, 880 is really crap in comparison.
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Dyson 360 Eye

Postby djos » September 5th, 2014, 5:17 pm

gregj wrote:wow, 880 is really crap in comparison.


The 880 has always been crap compared to any Vac bot with a proper vacuum motor and high speed brush bar.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 5th, 2014, 5:29 pm

Actually the 880 outperformed almost all robots in CNET testing and effectively tied the Neato robot as each one had victories over the other.

Also 880 intends to take several passes. They are showing single pass
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 5th, 2014, 7:46 pm

Also, if you slow down the roomba to Dyson speed it will improve as well.

It travels at this speed knowing it will make multiple passes. What you see here is a customized test for a dog and pony show
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby vic7767 » September 5th, 2014, 8:10 pm

Also that 360 didn't make a real clean pass. There was still some debris left, guess it'll get it on the next pass after a charge or two.
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Dyson 360 Eye

Postby djos » September 5th, 2014, 8:19 pm

third_deg wrote:Actually the 880 outperformed almost all robots in CNET testing and effectively tied the Neato robot as each one had victories over the other.

Also 880 intends to take several passes. They are showing single pass


Cnet's testing is notorious for being non-real world and favoring random bots that can do multiple passes in a small test area.

Btw, I checked our Aussie kitchen kick board height and the Dyson is way too tall! What a joke!
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 6th, 2014, 5:24 am

They should show how it manages with cleaning entire an area - from start to finish, unlike how it is done at their current exhibit. Also, I would love to see it picking up real life messes - ground in long pet hair, long human hair, dry mud and sand from a little thicker carpet/rug than the one in the show. Now, 900 euro is similar pricing to Miele Scout RX.

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 6th, 2014, 6:50 am

At now, japan dyson official website http://www.dyson.co.jp/dyson-vacuums/ro ... -blue.aspx is showing new data about 360 Eye:

"Charging time about 2 hours", "Operating time about 20-30 minutes", "Body dimensions Approximately 120 x 242 x 230 (height x width x depth)"
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 6th, 2014, 11:03 am

Does it know when the bin is full? Will it tell you with the app? Looks like it creates the map over time similar to samsung. Does not appear to have a bumper. Considering everybody else's vision attempts have still needed a bumper since IR is bad at flat black or dark objects, I have significant real world liabilities for this.

The bin just kills it.

The ad should read, our new vacuum will ask you to empty it 3X as often as a Roomba!
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 6th, 2014, 11:17 am

It has a 'clear bin' dustbin, so user can see when it's full. No mention about a 'full dustbin' electronic indicator or sth. The latest patent filings which you posted to this forum are saying that the pre-motor filter is a closed in cartridge, so that dust could not escape while removing from the machine. Both the pre-motor filter and exhaust filter are washable. Exhaust is probably HEPA-labeled.

Battery pack is located behind exhaust filter after giant rear 'exhaust' door. Battery pack is also cooled by airflow from the impeller, which then encounters the exhaust filter.

Main brush could be removed by one of its sides - needs only a coin to unscrew the cap (like in other Dyson's). This could mean that it can become wound with hair and other stuffs, so it will need regular manual cleaning. The main brush cleaning head is located itself in the rear side of the robot body - thus cleaning can not be done right in corners (similar to Neato XV).

It's very slow in motions, slower than Neato and other robo-vacs. I guess, it won't be cleaning too much space in these 20-30 minutes, before needing to go re-charge and resume cleaning where it left off. It's specification, capabilities and overall dimensions reminds more about Scooba 230 which was not designed for big spaces - only small single rooms. Just like for japan 'miniature' apartments.

J. Dyson is known for designing specific products with features for specific market, like Japan. Check their dyson.co.jp japan website, you will see that all canister vacuums available in this country are 'compact' sized (bin capacity below 0.4L) of original canister vacuums (bin capacity 1.5-2.5L), which are currently available in Europe and U.S Is it that 'Gimmick'?

P.s. I'm waiting for the user's manual which is still unavailable and could answer more of our questions.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » September 6th, 2014, 11:53 am

third_deg wrote:...Looks like it creates the map over time similar to samsung. Does not apear to have a bumper. Considering everybody else's vision attempts have still needed a bumper since IR is bad at flat black or dark objects, I have significant real world liabilities for this.

I'm curious as to how it copes with multiple rooms. It's mapping we're told seems to latch on to just a few high-contrast objects in a room for positioning... how does it see an exit point to the next room?

But given the short run-time and small bin, is it realistic to assume it could cover a multi-room floorplan?
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Gordon » September 6th, 2014, 12:00 pm

piokrza wrote:At now, japan dyson official website... is showing new data about 360 Eye: ... "Body dimensions Approximately 120 x 242 x 230 (height x width x depth)"
Peter, somehow, width & depth got interchanged.

Clearly, as seen in this thread's plan views of the Dyson robot, the length (a.k.a., depth, or fore/aft dimension) is about 5% greater than the robot's (left/right) width. Thus, "120 x 242 x 230 (height x width x depth)" should be 120 x 242 x 230 (height x depth x width).

I am wondering how that robot will handle navigating an internal 90-degree angle wall-following path without dragging its bulbous vacuum canister against a baseboard throughout the turn.

third_deg, do you see any escape from that potential dragging, other than to walk the robot away from the wall (enough to complete the turn, and assuming an oncoming orthogonal wall is sensed) just followed by excessive fwd/rev crawler actions?
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 6th, 2014, 12:06 pm

robocleaner wrote:I'm curious as to how it copes with multiple rooms.


It will take all day to clean an entire european or american house, lol...except for a studio-apartment, which are well common in Japan.

It's mapping we're told seems to latch on to just a few high-contrast objects in a room for positioning... how does it see an exit point to the next room?


Wasn't it explained in one of their promo-vids? When it leaves the home-station, it will move about 1 meter forward and start to move in a 'rectangular spiral' pattern as far as it encounter any type of object (wall, chair, etc.) - then it will follow it and start another 'rectangular spiral' pattern to cover neighboring zone. I guess, it uses quite similar algorithm as the LG Hom-Bot or the Neato XV...am I wrong?

But given the short run-time and small bin, is it realistic to assume it could cover a multi-room floorplan?


I guess no. It will depend on the rate of filling with dust, carpet/hard floor and amount of obstacles in each room. It's bin is so small, so if the vacuum power is really so high it will constantly need to be emptied (after each room). Also, the battery lasts only 20-30 minutes and requires 2 hour recharging each time... the robot itself is very slow during work...and even with resume feature I guess, it will take 'forever' to clean one floor. Don't forget it's not 'whisper quiet'....
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 6th, 2014, 12:09 pm

Gordon wrote:Peter, somehow, width & depth got interchanged.

Clearly, as seen in this thread's plan views of the Dyson robot, the length (a.k.a., depth, or fore/aft dimension) is about 5% greater than the robot's (left/right) width. Thus, "120 x 242 x 230 (height x width x depth)" should be 120 x 242 x 230 (height x depth x width).


That's not me! :lol: I only copy/paste this data from dyson.co.jp website...they mis-changed sth
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mfortuna » September 6th, 2014, 12:55 pm

That's a huge 0.5" off!

I don't see a use for this robot in anything but a small room. My Neato has gotten to the point where it needs a new battery and takes three 20 minute runs to clean my downstairs. That ends up being 6+ hours but it used to be more like 3 hours when the battery was new.

I can't see buying a robot that runs for 20 minutes per charge.

And if anyone thinks Irobot is concerned about this robot, please note my 8+ year old red cleans the downstairs almost as well as the Neato Xv-11.

IMHO you don't need fancy navigation to clean a floor. The brute force approach with multiple passes works well.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » September 6th, 2014, 1:40 pm

piokrza wrote:Wasn't it explained in one of their promo-vids? When it leave home-station, it move about 1 meter forward and start to moves in 'rectangular spiral' pattern as far as it encounter any type of object (wall, chair, etc.) - then it follow it and start another 'rectangular spiral' pattern to cover neighboring zone. I guess, it uses quite similar algorithm as LG Hom-Bot or Neato XV...am I wrong?

Yes, you could be right Peter; I was looking at the video that just shows recognition of a few high-contrast objects to determine its position. But as third_deg points out, the vision systems of LG, Samsung and Neato use a combination of sensors - IR and/or bumpers to compliment the "vision". This Dyson seems to rely solely on obstacle recognition through its one "eye". I'm sure it will become clear once the product is released.

As for bin-size, battery life, and thus coverage... my guess is that Dyson will re-scale the product, as they do with other models in their range... so perhaps we'll see a small, medium and larger version of this.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 6th, 2014, 3:45 pm

Gordon,

Relative to "butt dragging". You are right it's an issue. But there are a sufficient number of IR sensors in the right places for it to prevent dragging assuming surfaces are reflective enough. But it can't do a simple turn in place, it will have to think about it.

All of its movements are going to be methodical. The "precious battery power" he speaks of will be impacted by mobility for sure.

If you notice it hops in some pictures as it turns. Meaning the tank treads are gripping and flexing. The treads act more like a wheel as they are not flat along surface though. But not case in carpet, So that adds power requirements too.

Also keep in mind those treads are best going forward. Rearward mobility is compromised, and when turning in place one wheel is going backwards. So will not be able to always rotate over an obstacle.

Due to packaging he was forced to use a tank track so that he can keep height low of the system compared to large diameter wheels, while still allow good obstacle climbing.

Also the cleaning system is behind the tracks. That means they will see hair first, rather than like Neato that will pull that up before the wheels.

My full analysis of this robot is that it's like a trilobite. But I think the trilobite might be better in many ways. (Bigger
Bin, giant wheels for mobility, still sees environment with sonar, price the same)


Remember trilobite predates Roomba even. So is this progress? Or did he wait 16 years for people to forget about trilobite?
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