Dyson 360 Eye

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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby gregj » September 6th, 2014, 4:10 pm

For fun I cleared my room Today using my DC39, which has not been used for about a year... And then I ran my 780 over that room's carpet. It still managed to pick a small dustball of stuff...
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 6th, 2014, 5:13 pm

robocleaner wrote:This Dyson seems to rely solely on obstacle recognition through its one "eye".


It can not be true. You can notice two transparent windows on opposite sides of the dust bin. There are located infra red and ultra sound sensors. It is already descriped on japan dyson website.

As for bin-size, battery life, and thus coverage... my guess is that Dyson will re-scale the product, as they do with other models in their range... so perhaps we'll see a small, medium and larger version of this.


Only if they seriously think about other requiring markets.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby iPedro » September 6th, 2014, 5:34 pm

A Dyson rep has confirmed that the robot is 12cm high which will just about fit under base boards and toe kicks in modern kitchens. Older kitchens have lower toe kicks. Mine are 13cm. However, most fridges, stoves and dishwashers are about 9cm off the ground.

The same rep also confirmed that the Eye360 won't reach into the corner of rooms. That's a pretty serious oversight if you ask me.

My hope is that Dyson will work out the kinks in their first run in Japan before shipping elsewhere. However, I'm not optimistic. If they took 16 years to design this thing, they're not going to resolve these problems in months. A simple solution is what's being used by others: a side brush. But Dyson has already ridiculed those in their initial marketing. Another solution would be to expand the brush so it extends away from the main body.

All in all, I think I'll be waiting for v2.0
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 6th, 2014, 7:41 pm

Standard toe kick on a kitchen cabinet is 4". As many contractors install cabinets before installing flooring in order to save materials, the real number is often 3.5" due to stack height of base plywood followed by tile.

So the height of this robot at 4.75" does not fit under any modern cabinet I'm aware of.

Said another way, Dyson's definition of cleaning a floor "properly" means not cleaning corners, under cabinets or under couches.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby gregj » September 7th, 2014, 2:41 am

The fact that they allow continuous software updates is a great deal.
I did notice in the videos that the corner where table is, was never cleaned properly. But I'm sure they know that too - and will resolve this pretty serious flaw in software.
Roomba and others are not great with corners either - but they get by. Side brush is a ridiculous idea, best one people could come up so far - but still pretty ridiculous.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby iMayne » September 7th, 2014, 6:48 am

Am I the only one upset that in fact the company is British, why on earth would you launch in a different country first before your birth country?
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby piokrza » September 7th, 2014, 7:20 am

I guess, Japan is more important market for J. Dyson than his birth country. Asking: 'Why?' - $$$ or...?
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Dyson 360 Eye

Postby djos » September 7th, 2014, 7:21 am

Maybe he knows that vac bot model is utterly useless in any normal western house.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby iPedro » September 7th, 2014, 11:11 pm

third_deg wrote:Standard toe kick on a kitchen cabinet is 4". As many contractors install cabinets before installing flooring in order to save materials, the real number is often 3.5" due to stack height of base plywood followed by tile.

So the height of this robot at 4.75" does not fit under any modern cabinet I'm aware of.

Said another way, Dyson's definition of cleaning a floor "properly" means not cleaning corners, under cabinets or under couches.


I just went and re measured. My baseboards are all 13cm, my kitchen toe kicks are 15cm and my dishwasher and stove are 9cm. So it'll sort of work for me, cleaning under my toe kicks and under furniture mounted along baseboards but it'll miss under the dishwasher and stove.

This and completely missing corners are definitely severe oversights as this robot will not "clean properly" as stated. The more I try to think of a solution, the more the most obvious solution is to extend the cleaning arm further out of the body. Looking closer, the robot isn't completely round and the brush already protrudes out. Another half an inch and it would cover under toe kicks and in corners.

Nonetheless, I'm waiting for 2.0. This still needs work.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby djos » September 7th, 2014, 11:16 pm

I think Dyson have made a huge mistake by not putting the brush head at the very front of the bot as Neato have done, then they might actually have a legitimate case for excluding a side brush as then their bot could at least clean all the way into corners.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » September 8th, 2014, 6:40 am

iPedro wrote:
third_deg wrote:Standard toe kick on a kitchen cabinet is 4". As many contractors install cabinets before installing flooring in order to save materials, the real number is often 3.5" due to stack height of base plywood followed by tile.

So the height of this robot at 4.75" does not fit under any modern cabinet I'm aware of.

Said another way, Dyson's definition of cleaning a floor "properly" means not cleaning corners, under cabinets or under couches.


I just went and re measured. My baseboards are all 13cm, my kitchen toe kicks are 15cm and my dishwasher and stove are 9cm. So it'll sort of work for me, cleaning under my toe kicks and under furniture mounted along baseboards but it'll miss under the dishwasher and stove.

This and completely missing corners are definitely severe oversights as this robot will not "clean properly" as stated. The more I try to think of a solution, the more the most obvious solution is to extend the cleaning arm further out of the body. Looking closer, the robot isn't completely round and the brush already protrudes out. Another half an inch and it would cover under toe kicks and in corners.

Nonetheless, I'm waiting for 2.0. This still needs work.

The height of virtually all kitchens/kickpanels is adjustable. If an installer knows that thicker flooring is to be used - i.e. either tiles or wood floor panelling is to be used - the height of the cupboards is adjusted to suit. So all this talk of "my kickpanels are 13cm, therefore this Dyson is junk" is irrelevant - it's likely that the increased thickness of floor was added after the kitchen was planned. In many cases, jacking the kitchen up to give even 8 or 9" kickpanel clearance is often quite possible.

The idea of an extending brush-bar Dyson considered in their original prototype/patent. Presumably this hasn't proved feasible in a marketable product.

And having the brush-bar towards the back doesn't necessarily prove to be a problem - as witnessed by the original Electrolux Trilobite.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby third_deg » September 8th, 2014, 9:47 am

Kick panel height is just reality, not irrelevant. Vast majority of homes are under 4". So yes it matters.

The Dyson is a trilobite clone with a bin that's half the size.

And trilobites lack of corner cleaning has been it's downfall as well.

Roomba and others have side brush, Neato shaped to at least attempt to get to corners and still added a side brush, and latest Samsung is the same.

I just don't think ignoring the problems is the best way to solve.

The Dyson us not rubbish, but it's not a full solution either.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » September 8th, 2014, 11:31 am

third_deg wrote:Kick panel height is just reality, not irrelevant. Vast majority of homes are under 4". So yes it matters.

That's not the reality in any of the 8 homes I own in the UK, dating from 1910 to 2000, where the kick-panel is the standard 6"/15cm in height. Even in the Cottage I've just bought, built back in the 1600's (when Manhatten was sold to a Dutchman for just $24 and Australia was still just a prison colony!), the 1970's kitchen - about to be stripped out - also has a kick-panel height of 6"! Running a business maintaining property in the UK (including kitchen installation) I can honestly say very few properties I've come across here have kick-panels of "under 4"", even the £4m mansions I work on. So I'm afraid I don't share your reality.

third_deg wrote:The Dyson is a trilobite clone with a bin that's half the size. And trilobites lack of corner cleaning has been it's downfall as well. Roomba and others have side brush, Neato shaped to at least attempt to get to corners and still added a side brush, and latest Samsung is the same.

I don't find my Trilobite that way, since the strength of vacuum compensates to some degree. The side-brush of the Roomba I used (and the Samsung I own) was all but useless, simply flicking dirt around. It's the same view Dyson himself takes in his promotional videos.

third_deg wrote:I just don't think ignoring the problems is the best way to solve. The Dyson us not rubbish, but it's not a full solution either.

I'd agree; I don't think any robotic cleaner is a full solution either, but until we see how this new Dyson performs in the real world, it's all just speculation. At least here in the UK, if your kitchen has been installed properly at a standard 6" kick-panel height, the Dyson's ability to clean under it shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby vic7767 » September 8th, 2014, 12:01 pm

Here in the US and a 1998 double wide manufactured home, the kick panels in the kitchen including a center island are all 3". I've found the Roomba with its side brush to be the most effective at cleaning that area.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » September 8th, 2014, 12:21 pm

Maybe this Dyson isn't destined for release in America?!
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Fraggboy » September 8th, 2014, 12:41 pm

Eh, could be. Oh well. Something tells me that I'm not going to lose any sleep if it's not going to release in the US...
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby mofan » September 8th, 2014, 12:48 pm

I am still shaking my head at what Dyson has released. They sacrificed most of what needs to be improved about robo-vacs for the sake of good suction. Ultimately, navigation and cleaning performance appear to have been solved (which are certainly both big issues), but Dyson's robot either fails to improve upon or is worse than the roomba in the following areas:

1. Cleaning coverage- Yes, Dyson will do a better job at hitting all parts of the open floor methodically, but for corners, under furniture, and along kitchen toe kicks, advantage goes to Roomba.
2. Dirtier areas of the floor- The acoustic and optical sensors that tell Roomba where there is extra dirt and debris and that tell Roomba to concentrate extra effort in that spot. My sense of the Dyson is that it just follows its path and does not deviate no matter how much junk is on the floor.
3. Cords and tassles- Roomba has developed pretty good algorithms for dealing with this problem, but we have no evidence that Dyson can handle it.
4. Maintenance- this has historically been a complaint with the Roomba, but the new brush design has apparently gone a long way toward reducing Roomba maintenance. The Dyson, with its small dust bin, brushes, and no auto-empty feature, actually appears to require more maintenance than the Roomba. It amazes me that Dyson wouldn't think more about that problem. The whole reason that people want a robot is to do less work.
5. Battery life. Battery life. Battery life. I still can't believe this one. The Dyson has a narrower cleaning path and moves slower than the Roomba so even though it covers each area only once, we know that it is not going to cover as much area per battery charge as a Roomba. Maybe I am in the minority, but that is an absolute deal-breaker for me. I hate the fact that in a multi-room large home, Roomba cannot effectively find all of the rooms and cover them completely, and Dyson does not appear to have solved that here. I understand that it is a difficult engineering challenge to make a wider cleaning path and still have strong suction, but if Dyson decided that suction was more important than a wide cleaning path, and does not care about getting under toe kicks, then he should have added an inch of height to the machine and doubled the battery life so the the machine won't take an entire day to finish cleaning. A larger home could take several cleaning cycles along with several two hour charging sessions so it literally would take all day.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby robocleaner » September 8th, 2014, 1:25 pm

@ mofan. There's no point getting upset about what Dyson is doing here: If you wiki James Dyson, you'll realise why this design is as it is - it's aimed specifically at the Japanese market where apartments are notoriously small: It's in Japan where James Dyson first achieved success with his first vacuum cleaner - having previously had his original bagless designs turned down by every mainstream western vacuum cleaner manufacturer (most of whom now ironically copy them).

If there's one thing you can be sure of, James Dyson knows what he's doing; Having had his original designs rejected by almost every existing manufacturer, he then set-up his own and has since built a £6-billion company from nothing in 30 years. If he decides to conquer a market, he will - and given that his first bag-less design famously underwent some 5000 prototypes before release, you can be sure that if this Robotic product needs a ground-up redesign to appeal to and dominate other markets - if that's what he chooses to do - he will.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby vic7767 » September 8th, 2014, 2:22 pm

robocleaner wrote:Maybe this Dyson isn't destined for release in America?!



There's no maybe... Of course it won't be released in its present configuration. It's obvious that the intended market is Japan and the smaller home environment footprint without a Western design. I lived in Japan for 3 years in the city of Fukuoka (福岡) on the island of Kyushu and things are much smaller there as far as living quarters.
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Re: Dyson 360 Eye

Postby Gordon » September 9th, 2014, 1:05 pm

And, street-worn shoes & clogs come off feet immediately upon entering quarters. Sasebo/Yokousuka/1952.
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