RC3000 base station not sucking!

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RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby rebel » July 2nd, 2017, 4:43 am

Hi

As the title says - the base station is not sucking out the dirt. The cleaner goes to station makes a low humming sound and then proceeds to charge. There was a thread about a base station not purging but as far as I know it was never resolved.

I have had these cleaners for over 12 years and would be so sad to lose it now :( .

Any of you experts out there have any ideas?

Many thanks

Marilyn
2 Roombas, 1 Scooba 5800, 2 Karcher RC3000, 2 Trilobite, 1 Dolphin Pool Cleaner, 2 Robomowers
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby robocleaner » July 2nd, 2017, 3:25 pm

It was this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17634

We kinda did almost sort of resolve it, except the member managed to find a second-hand base station for just a few bucks and so never pursued the fix to its natural conclusion.

It all started with a blown/overheated resistor, whose colour coding wasn't very clear at all. Unfortunately, the member replaced the resistor with one of (what we later discovered) was clearly the wrong value, and fireworks ensued seemingly causing more damage.

What we did learn was that the part of the circuit that controls the vacuum motor is very simple and made from easily sourced parts/components (even Maplin/RS Components stock them). Any electronic repair shop should be able to firstly/easily test the mains-powered vacuum motor itself to check thats still working, and if it is, any repair to that motors control circuit should be simple to test and fix.

The big issue might be if the mains powered vacuum motor itself has packed up... if Karcher still have spare motors and if you would justify the (likely) quite high cost of the replacement given the age of this RC3000?
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby rebel » July 3rd, 2017, 12:05 am

Many thanks for replying. I will see if I can find an electronics repair shop locally to have a look.

As you say it is quite old now so it might not be worth repairing but it is certainly worth a try. It has worked flawlessly all these years and is probably the most cost effective vacuum I have had! I only changed the brush and batteries fairly recently.

Thanks again

Marilyn
2 Roombas, 1 Scooba 5800, 2 Karcher RC3000, 2 Trilobite, 1 Dolphin Pool Cleaner, 2 Robomowers
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » August 13th, 2017, 6:48 am

I'm curious if you did try and repair your base station? I'm having the exact same problem with mine. I have replaced most of the components on the board except for the U2008B since it seems to be out of stock everywhere. Had to order it from china and still waiting for the item to be shipped!
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » September 28th, 2017, 3:47 pm

So finally got the U2008B and replaced it, no change. I have also had issues with "quiet" mode before it stopped sucking. Today I checked the button was not working like the other two. So I removed thinking it maybe confused the logic processor. No change. I'm going to start replacing the rest of the components now
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby robocleaner » September 28th, 2017, 6:11 pm

jappish wrote:...I have also had issues with "quiet" mode before it stopped sucking.

Did you first check the motor still runs? You can easily check that from the spade contacts on the board. If it doesn't run, it could simply be worn carbon brushes, or a failed capacitor used to kick start it (if there is one, it'll likely be on the motor).

jappish wrote:...Today I checked the button was not working like the other two...

That might be a worn membrane, or fluid/contaminant damage.

jappish wrote:I'm going to start replacing the rest of the components now

The original problem in the other thread had clear signs of heat damage to the main voltage dropping resistor. Does your board show any signs of heat damage?

It was only because that resistor was incorrectly replaced with one of a very wrong value that it seemed likely other components probably fried... and so in that case it made sense to replace the other low-voltage components in that separate motor control part of the circuit.
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » September 28th, 2017, 6:22 pm

Yeah, I've checked that the motor runs when AC is applied directly, no problem there.

I think you are right regarding the button. I pressed it once with wet hands, and quite mode started to get enabled/disabled by itself sometimes after that. It's a simple fix though, but I still wanted to check if the button confused the circuit. It doesn't seem to.

I have the same burn marks below that same resistor as in the original post, after desoldering and measuring, the resistor seemed fine, but I still went on and replaced it with a new one of same value.

I have now replaced most of the components, but still no change. I still have a few dip components to replace, let's hope it's one of them.

I'll try posting a pic showing which components I've replaced

Edit: here are the components I've replaced. Everything labeled with "bytt" has been replaced, still no go

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TRfR1CgUYHuI2nAb2
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » September 29th, 2017, 3:27 am

@robocleaner I would love if you could double check the value of the resistor closest to the U2008B. According to color coding, this resistor should be 180k Ohm. The resistor on my unit measured 680k Ohm outside of circuit though. Not sure if the rings have been discolored or I'm reading a faulty resistor.

I'm also not sure about the resistor above the spade contacts. This R should be 47,8 Ohms but mine reads .5 Ohms outside circuit. I've replaced it with another 48 Ohm with no change

As far as I can tell nothing else has been damaged during component replacing. No smoke or sparks as in the other thread
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby robocleaner » September 29th, 2017, 3:58 am

The smoke/sparks came from replacing R12 with something well below the 21k it should have been and (probably) frying that secondary circuit... again, because the colour banding on Karchers resistors isn't clear.

From what I remember, its the optocoupler CNY17G that takes the signal from the primary circuit to trigger the separate secondary motor control circuit (the components to the right of it). I think you need to determine if there's a signal going to/coming from that optocoupler. Are you getting voltage at R12?

Your switching Triac BTA12 is missing in your pic (assume you did refit that before testing).

I am literally packing bags for a weeks trip... otherwise I would happily check R values. Pics of my board are in that other thread if you want to check colour banding. Otherwise, I'm back in a week!
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » September 29th, 2017, 7:08 am

Thanks @robocleaner CNY17G is next in line for replacing. I didn't know CNY17G was responsible for triggering the motor circuit. I have however read that the U2008B can be a troublesome component (see http://frantisek.rysanek.sweb.cz/U2008B.htm )

I removed the BTA12 in the pic to check if faulty/good, same with R12 and R17. Everything is back in place and most of the components have already been replaced. I haven't checked the voltage over R12. I'll do it later tonight with the original CNY17G, and then I'll try to replace it to see if that makes a difference.

Like I've mentioned, there aren't many more components left to replace. I have CNY17G, 4116R resistor network, LM393P and the HCF4093BE NAND gate left to replace, not counting the copper coil, DCES505AC, big transformer and that white thingy with the vacuum hose.

I'm also trying to find a safe way to trigger the BTA12 in circuit just to see if that would trigger the motor (If it does I could use this method for an easy/cheap "plan B" mod that would start the the motor when robot docks). If all else fails I'm thinking maybe also try adding a 910 Ohm resistor between TRIAC gate and ground as in the blog post above. I'd rather not start modifying the circuit before I've tried all other "safe" alternatives since my knowledge with electronics is on a very basic level.


I appreciate all the help I can get. I wish you a pleasant trip robocleaner!
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » September 30th, 2017, 11:11 am

Ok so i have 104V passing through R12 when base is idling and no change when robot docks and suction should start.

CNY17G replaced, no change

LM393P replaced, no change

4116R replaced, no change

I even tried adding a 910 Ohm resistor from BTA12 gate to ground, no change.

next in line for replacing is HCF4093, but i ordered an SMD version of it. I'm tired and I lost my will a bit and will have to come back to this later.

I'm now looking in to see if I can come up with a neat home automation setup instead that triggers the vacuum when the robot docks and turns it off after a set period of time. I have a few Nexa receivers that work with domoticz, shouldn't be to hard.

If you have any more ideas, I'd love to hear them
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby glnc222 » September 30th, 2017, 2:19 pm

A variety of methods for detecting when a robot is docked are in Neato forum "dock based clock" for measuring run time, detecting departures and arrivals.
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17069&hilit=dock+clock
Especially easy if the dock has an indicator led for when the robot is docked which can be tapped by an analog comparator converting to logic level signals (attaching only a high impedance to the product, for protection). The circuit's shown should be adjusted for particular situations, and simplified. Contact with any questions.
The little 8 pin PIC microcontrollers are an alternative to discrete logic used for modern methods when complicated, I haven't used.
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Re: RC3000 base station not sucking!

Postby jappish » September 30th, 2017, 2:59 pm

glnc222 wrote:A variety of methods for detecting when a robot is docked are in Neato forum "dock based clock" for measuring run time, detecting departures and arrivals.
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17069&hilit=dock+clock
Especially easy if the dock has an indicator led for when the robot is docked which can be tapped by an analog comparator converting to logic level signals (attaching only a high impedance to the product, for protection). The circuit's shown should be adjusted for particular situations, and simplified. Contact with any questions.
The little 8 pin PIC microcontrollers are an alternative to discrete logic used for modern methods when complicated, I haven't used.


Thanks, I've actually already made a simple mod. I have an old android phone that I once repurposed as a security camera. I simply moved it to the location where I have the base station, plugged in a 3.5mm headphone jack and fitted a press button to the MIC and ground connection. So when the robot docks it presses the button. This then triggers an action that activates power to the motor for 30 seconds before turning the power off again. I'm using the macrodroid app to sense mic press and call the "http get" command that controls my Nexa powerplug

At least I don't have to vacuum manually anymore, but still hoping to get this thing back the way it was.
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