Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

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Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby Engztrom » January 27th, 2014, 2:05 pm

Starting yesterday, I can no longer turn off my Neato XV Signature with the "shutdown" menu command!
It says it can't shut down while connected to power, even if it isn't connected to the base station!
Also, the charge indicator keeps rotating, even when not connected to power.
I have tried to reset it with the power switch inside, but the problem still remains...
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby vic7767 » January 27th, 2014, 2:35 pm

That is an issue to share with NeatoRobotics.com Customer Support.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby sir_Erken » February 14th, 2014, 9:24 am

I have the same problem.
In terminal when i typ getcharger it shows:
Label,Value
FuelPercent,89
BatteryOverTemp,0
ChargingActive,0
ChargingEnabled,1 <-----This cant be right??
ConfidentOnFuel,0
OnReservedFuel,0
EmptyFuel,0
BatteryFailure,0
ExtPwrPresent,1
ThermistorPresent[0],1
ThermistorPresent[1],1
BattTempCAvg[0],28
BattTempCAvg[1],26
VBattV,16.30
VExtV,15.68
Charger_mAH,0

Is there any way of solving this without neato support?
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby vic7767 » February 14th, 2014, 11:17 am

sir_Erken wrote:I have the same problem.

Is there any way of solving this without neato support?


No one has discovered a solution yet.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby mfortuna » February 14th, 2014, 11:51 am

I think ChargingEnabled,1 is OK but ExtPwrPresent,1 should be ExtPwrPresent,0 if you are not docked. For some reason the robot thinks there is power present on the contacts. An internal circuit failure seems likely.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby glnc222 » February 14th, 2014, 1:04 pm

The GetAnalogSensors -- getan -- command shows a voltage detected from the charger, "charging voltage" or somesuch, a very tiny number when not docked, the plate voltage when docked.
If a bug has occurred in the program memory reverting to the previous version by the procedure here somewhere, two simultaneous keyboard presses I think, would provide different software to compare. Then repeating the update procedure would reload the current software. ([edit] hold down the "back" and "start" button together for a few seconds. This will last until you next restart your robot. ) Memory is also cleared if the batteries removed for a couple minutes -- like "clearing the cache" in Internet Explorer.

The only sensors it would seem to have is voltmeters and ammeters on the battery and charging plates, and if those read correctly it might be something in the software. Otherwise there is some sort of cpu defect or memory defect and the system board needs to be replaced. Even if fixed somehow once, it could be a recurring problem anytime a memory bit gets stuck again.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby frenchie » February 17th, 2014, 8:51 am

I had that exact same problem a couple of days ago: I got back from work, with the robot docked, red light on, battery error 4. It said, battery error, press OK to restart. I did, pushed the robot back on the dock and let it charge. It seemed to behave as usual, so I sent it on a mission when it was charged. It did its thing, but when it went back to the station to dock (mid cleaning recharge), it turned around (veryyyyyyyyy slowlyyyyyyyyy), as if to back up to dock, and just stopped, about one foot from the dock, with the message "cleaning suspended while charging", red light, showing that the battery was charging !!!! wtf ?
I have a video of this behavior, I'll see if I can figure out how to upload it.
After a few minutes, the battery error 4 showed up, and there was no way to get out of it. Pressing OK did nothing so I pulled out both batteries, waited a few seconds, plugged them back in, put the robot on the dock, did a restart, and used the new battery functionality.

The interesting thing is that I ran the robot in a section of the house where it does not usually go to, and it went under all the funiture and picked up a lot of stuff (full bin of dust). My feeling is that as the cleaning cycle progresses, the load on the battery gets higher and higher, and this causes some issues with how the battery discharge is controlled (maybe temperature related too, but the cells were not hot, just mildly warm). The issue also probably depends on how well the cells are matched in the battery pack.

After the I used the new battery functionality, I let the robot charge all afternoon and overnight, and it is supposed to clean it's usual section of the house later today (3 rooms and a hallway, usually done in one charge, sometimes with a short mid-session recharge depending on how it maps out the rooms). I'll report back here with the result.

[EDIT : error code was 0004, not 0002]
Last edited by frenchie on February 18th, 2014, 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby mfortuna » February 17th, 2014, 10:37 am

There seems to be various issues with Neato battery voltage going low. I have heard of this power issue, "lost my way", "wheel error", etc.

The second charging error 2 is not unexpected since the Neato thought it was connected to power but the battery wasn't charging.

The turning very slowly also makes me think the battery was low.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby frenchie » February 17th, 2014, 6:46 pm

Reporting back.
Got home, cleaning session completed OK it seems. Red light with battery error 0004... Called Neato CS, no waiting time, very helpful lady on the phone, asked me a couple of questions and they are sending a replacement.... Noooooooooooooooooo
I was not expected to get charged for shipping though :( (about $20)

What seems to have broken it is a discharge pattern that is different than usual (faster). Wild guess on my part : the battery discharges more than it should, and when it tries to charge after that, something trips (charging circuitry in the robot ? otherwise CS would only send batteries, not a whole bot !)

I hope the replacement is good for more than 2 months ! (good thing I have 2 years and 10 months left on the warranty !!!)
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby mfortuna » February 17th, 2014, 7:17 pm

I assume they are sending a new battery and a new bot?
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby frenchie » February 17th, 2014, 7:19 pm

yes, new (refurb) bot with battery and dock
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby bab80 » September 26th, 2014, 11:07 pm

I know this thread is a couple months old. But I was wondering if anyone had come to a conclusion about this problem. I have a been experiencing the same problem with my neato xv-21. The only difference from what I read on the forums in comparison to mine. Is that mine will eventually get to the point where it says its fully charged and stay that way. I can have it clean the floor no problem. But if I go to settings and shut down, the unit says that it still plugged into a charger then it gives Error... but if I let it charge on the dock everything goes back to normal also if I pull the unit away from the base turn the off/on switch off and turn it back on it goes back into thinking its charging again. I have change the batteries put in old batteries that I had updated the firmware to 4.3. no luck this unit is of course way way WAY out of warranty so I can fiddle with it with no consequences. Anybody have an idea of what I could try next.
Cheers :cheers:
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby glnc222 » September 27th, 2014, 12:19 am

Alternative battery research found the system detects the dock with a voltage measurement. USB command GetAnalogSensors reports "charging voltage", showing around 22v from the dock.

If the battery is connected via additional circuitry to the charging contacts, off the dock, even through a very high resistance, the system will blink the charging indicator; voltage detectors have high impedance. It is too stupid to recognize there is no actual charging power, and just relies on the voltage indicator.

So this is a fault in the volt meter components or a short somewhere feeding a voltage into it. In other words, a system board defect. It is not practical to isolate particular components at fault and repair. The system board must be replaced. Their prices have fallen a lot since introduction of the BotVac. However, only those with the full LCD connector instead of the old cable clamp can be used in those newer Signature models. I have not looked for those specifically.

The blinking indicator does not show there is actual charging current from the dock, as this is regulated by a program procedure. Current can even be flowing without the indicator blinking, in the multiple phases and modes of the procedure. The indicator just shows whether the charging procedure is underway and the bot is not yet ready to run. It can run without a full charge, and the light goes steady before completion of full charge.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby Lewiy » September 27th, 2014, 3:58 am

The solution is in Russian forum: the Schottky diode in the chain of the battery charge (D14 in the diagram) is burned. It is recommended to replace the old one with a new diode and add a radiator. Diagram is available here http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=attach:47:10516:4027:1.jpg
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby Gordon » September 27th, 2014, 3:03 pm

bab80 wrote:...I was wondering if anyone had come to a conclusion about this problem. I have a been experiencing the same problem with my neato xv-21. ... if I go to settings and shut down, the unit says that it still plugged into a charger then it gives Error... but if I let it charge on the dock everything goes back to normal also if I pull the unit away from the base turn the off/on switch off and turn it back on it goes back into thinking its charging again. ... I can fiddle with it with no consequences. Anybody have an idea of what I could try next.
I think Lewiy's post is just what you need. But, in your Neato's case diode D14 is still OK (because charging vis the Base works).

After studying the partial schematic linked to us by Lewiy, the charging-voltage sensing points are between receptacle P19 and diode D14A for the Charging Base input; and, between coax-jack J3 and diode D15A (suffixed "A" to both diodes means 'anode') for a direct connected charging-PSU.

I suggest that you concentrate on studying the mechanical switching aspect of J3 (because, if the R42 to GND connection fails to change continuity as you mate & de-mate {even a powered OFF PSU's...} a pigtail plug, there is something wrong with the jack).

BTW: I don't feel comfortable about the way J3's switching is drawn (and would need to spend more time to verify), but, I think you should be able to check switching continuity by measuring between the jack's GND lug (nearest to the PCB's edge, and the side lug).

If replacing J3 turns out to fix your Neato, thanks go to Lewyi!
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby glnc222 » September 27th, 2014, 4:48 pm

That could be one of the few things easier to fix on a system board (compared to replacing surface mount diodes...) --if we are sure that switch in the connector is the problem.

If the grounding switch in the barrel connector for direct power brick connection is not working, a jumper could be soldered between the connector terminals, and the jack abandoned (the dock is usually preferred). I did not know there was a switch in that type of connector, cataloged as a barrel power connector.
That connector ceased to be enabled in models with a rubber cover over it, anticipating further revisions leaving it off entirely. Those were models with the newer full plug on the LCD cable.

I used this part to make taps inside the dock:
Charger power barrel connector, coaxial DC power, size EIAJ-03, Adaptaplug C. 1.65-1.70mm ID x 4.75 OD
Digi-Key Part No. CP-046H-ND jack (male for pin contra video type), CP-014-ND plug (female for central cavity).
Jack datasheet http://www.cui.com/product/resource/pj-046h.pdf
Shows the switch.

[edit] see differences between old and newer boards
Rev.64 board with full LCD plug http://xv11hacking.wikispaces.com/PCB+rev.+64

Old board with LCD cable clamp http://xv11hacking.wikispaces.com/XV-11+PCB+Information
Last edited by glnc222 on September 28th, 2014, 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby bab80 » September 27th, 2014, 10:07 pm

Holy moly guys that was a lot to take in. :) I'll give it a try and let you know the results when I get to work on it in about a week or two. Curiosity is going to kill me till then.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby Lewiy » September 28th, 2014, 1:48 am

Battery voltage is passed back through the burned diode D14 to the control circuit of the charger. Therefore, the controller assumes that the robot is connected to charging. At the same time, a charging current has the ability to flow in the forward direction through D14 to the battery. It is therefore possible to charge the battery via the base. The original post on this issue can be found here: http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=47:10516:4612#4612
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby glnc222 » September 28th, 2014, 3:42 am

google translation of Russian post (without perfect language, limited ability)

Role of expanded heat sink explained.

surprised that it is interesting to someone - say in the case where the robot should "board rev 64":

From the words I see that the voltage from the battery goes to the external terminals are charging.
In this circuit, the diode should D14. This Schottky diode 5A 40V. Not need to be a Psychic to understand that it burned

There is a question - why?
Observed that the D14 has a larger size than the D15 - is another question.
Since the diode is burned onto a fault, then probably from overheating.
I found his power when charging current 3A - everything to the limit. Neatovtsy put larger size for a reason.
Heat from the diode through kontarnye pads on the board, and they are clearly too small for this.
Perhaps if the feed charging American 127v, then the charging current would be less than Nemon and heat would be enough, but we in Russia with our 220v.

In short, I also burned in a vacuum cleaner, this diode, I changed it, but after a while it burned down again.
I began to understand, to increase the heat sink soldered to the site a small radiator - now everything works fine.

I think it should be a popular fault for "board rev 64". Typical signs of failure - the robot is not on the base, and the indicator shows that it is charging.
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Re: Neato XV Signature got stuck in charging mode...

Postby Gordon » September 29th, 2014, 1:14 am

Lewiy wrote:Battery voltage is passed back through the burned diode D14 to the control circuit of the charger.
There are a couple things to consider in response to that statement:
    1) I do, indeed, agree that current from Neato's "battery" could follow a path through D11 and some MOSFET's (Q12's & Q14's) parasitic diodes, to be conducted towards Neato's Base through "burned D14", that was over-heated enough in a charging operation to convert it to a non-semiconductor bi-directional conductive mass.{edited to add "D11" and remove "Q8"} And, if battery voltage appeared across the R101/R98? voltage divider, a signal would be sent to U8 saying: "charging power is available at P19". {added-->} If charging voltage at P19 is greater than battery voltage, a charging current will pass through Neato's battery (assuming U8 has enabled 'charging'. And,
    2) {as written, element (2) was rubbish and was deleted} I believe that Neato's v64 charging controller is composed of: power FETs Q12 & Q14, coupled with peripheral SOT-23 size FET drivers, and all being commanded by MCU U8. {edit:140930 My "no", in this next sentence, S/B "some"}I think that no charging control is being done in Neato's Base.{inserting more:}An adjustable current ballast function must be provided on the basePCA to reduce output voltage to the mainPCA just enough to be a fraction of a volt greater than battery voltage. If that dynamic reduction is not provided, a very large, and damaging, current will be drawn by the battery.{end 140930 edit} The circuit of the elex module in the Base (between power brick and Base contacts) looks like a dc-to-dc converter, with current limiting and voltage regulation.{end of insert}
Therefore, the controller assumes that the robot is connected to charging.
Agreed.
At the same time, a charging current has the ability to flow in the forward direction through D14 to the battery. It is therefore possible to charge the battery via the base.
Yes, bab80 did allude to completing Neato charging that way, as indicated at the beginning of this quotation:
On the 26th, bab80 wrote:...if I let it charge on the dock everything goes back to normal also if I pull the unit away from the base turn the off/on switch off and turn it back on it goes back into thinking its charging again. ...
Now, notice what he says after the base disconnect: "it goes back into thinking its charging again.". In this case:
    A) There is no power being applied to the robot from the Base.
    B) We can assume that duff D14 does conduct electricity, OR it does not (it may very well have fused open to become an insulator). We won't know, until bab80 inspects his mainPCA.
    C) IF D14 conducts both ways, your battery-voltage appearance (hypothesis) between D14A and P19's pin will bias the R101/R98 voltage divider and tell U8 a lie.
    D) OTOH, IF D14 is healthy, and blocks any source of voltage on the bus between D14K and D15K, a problematic switch--held open, rather than in its normally-closed state, will also tell U8 a lie.
Once bab80 accesses his robot's mainPCA, buzzing out the culprit should take less time than writing about possibilities.
Last edited by Gordon on September 30th, 2014, 10:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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