Wake Neato up from dead mode

News and information about the Neato XV-11 Robotic Vacuum. All discussion and troubleshooting questions go here.

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Lewiy » February 22nd, 2015, 10:09 am

ag43 wrote:i've ordered 20V 100uf capacitor

It's time to change the batteries, not the capacitor.
Lewiy
Robot Master
 
Posts: 143
Joined: September 27th, 2014, 3:33 am

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby ag43 » February 22nd, 2015, 1:49 pm

again, i find it hard to beleive that batteries that worked fine went bad at the same day i've replaced the capacitor.
new problem - i've tried to recharge the robot directly through the charging plug (and not the "base") and it doesn't charge. anyone has any idea why?
ag43
 
Posts: 19
Joined: December 13th, 2014, 5:34 pm

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Medtech » February 22nd, 2015, 2:02 pm

be detached from the robot both batteries and connect them again to eliminate the possibility of poor contact in the socket and turn off the power switch to turn on the trash if it is there. C10 does not affect the battery problem, perhaps in soldering you get a drop of solder to other contacts, you should carefully examine the board.
Plug in the robot is not designed to charge only for emergency power.
More than 20 robots was reactivated after replacing C10, problems with batteries not been seen.
Thank you GOOGLE translator for the freedom of communication.
User avatar
Medtech
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 126
Joined: October 17th, 2014, 3:12 pm
Location: Moscow Russia

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Medtech » February 22nd, 2015, 2:19 pm

In addition to the replacement of C10, to facilitate the thermal mode stabilizer, soldered copper plate radiator heat spreader, in the course of the experiments was to find a suitable comb plate.
Who works with electricity easily recognize this detail.
IMG_3172.JPG

IMG_3472.JPG
Thank you GOOGLE translator for the freedom of communication.
User avatar
Medtech
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 126
Joined: October 17th, 2014, 3:12 pm
Location: Moscow Russia

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby vic7767 » February 22nd, 2015, 2:40 pm

ag43 wrote: i've tried to recharge the robot directly through the charging plug (and not the "base") and it doesn't charge. anyone has any idea why?
As Medtech posted earlier, NeatoRobotics quit using the mini USB charging feature and the only way to charge your Neato is using the home base only. The USB port is only used to access maintenance tools installed within the firmware.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
User avatar
vic7767
Robot Master
 
Posts: 14371
Joined: January 14th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Location: Haughton Louisiana - USA

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby ag43 » February 22nd, 2015, 5:34 pm

i'm talking about the ac connector, not the mini usb.
ag43
 
Posts: 19
Joined: December 13th, 2014, 5:34 pm

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Medtech » February 22nd, 2015, 5:52 pm

ag43 wrote:i'm talking about the ac connector, not the mini usb.

Only power without batteries or if the batteries do not work.
Not intended for charging.
you see it for yourself.
:mrgreen:
Thank you GOOGLE translator for the freedom of communication.
User avatar
Medtech
Robot Addict
 
Posts: 126
Joined: October 17th, 2014, 3:12 pm
Location: Moscow Russia

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby vic7767 » February 22nd, 2015, 7:08 pm

ag43 wrote:i'm talking about the ac connector, not the mini usb.

I responded and left out the term, "NeatoRobotics did not include direct charger support", only USB support for maintenance. The power supply cannot be plugged into the dc jack on the Neato to charge the battery packs.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
User avatar
vic7767
Robot Master
 
Posts: 14371
Joined: January 14th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Location: Haughton Louisiana - USA

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby mmm2000 » February 28th, 2015, 8:12 pm

From the time it was new, my neato had been losing its clock and cleaning schedule settings every time when it got stuck while cleaning or when it was not hooked up to power immediately after it finished cleaning. Has anybody experienced this?

I ignored the problem and I did not get a warranty replacement and then a few months after the warranty expired the green dim light problem started for me. I just purchased a new set of batteries (the long lasting ones) and while before my robot would charge twice just to clean my downstairs rooms, now it finishes without recharging and it still has about 30% battery charge left. Pretty sweet! Just have to fix the green dim issue. So I do recommend buying new batteries after about 2 years of usage and when u do, get the ones with the extra juice.

I will be replacing that capacitor soon and I just wanted to know if the green dim issue might be related to my robot losing its settings.
mmm2000
 
Posts: 29
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 3:14 am

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby vic7767 » February 28th, 2015, 8:24 pm

mmm2000 wrote: I just wanted to know if the green dim issue might be related to my robot losing its settings.

Yes, the capacitor is part of maintaining the 5 volt supply that keeps the MCU running.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
User avatar
vic7767
Robot Master
 
Posts: 14371
Joined: January 14th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Location: Haughton Louisiana - USA

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby mmm2000 » February 28th, 2015, 10:20 pm

So this MCU is like a RAM memory which loses its content when power goes out?

And if I had this problem from the beginning, that means this capacitor was on its way to going bad even when new?

I am not familiar on how these capacitors act while in use. Do they decrease their efficiency/capacity/etc after some time?

I wonder why this manufacturer would not use a flash type memory for the settings, like a computer bios... I guess they just want to keep the manufacturing cost low.
mmm2000
 
Posts: 29
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 3:14 am

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby vic7767 » February 28th, 2015, 10:47 pm

The MCU is the microprocessor. The capacitor act like a small battery that powers the MCU during interruptions to the normal 5vdc power buss. When the MCU does not have stable 5 volt power the periphery that it controls can loose settings like the clock and schedules.

The capacitor used ( C-10 ) was supplied to NeatoRobotics to install into the main circuit board. Most components used in circuit boards come from the lowest bidder and therefore sometimes the component may fail early during its operational life due to how it was made.
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/

http://www.Robot-Doc.com/
User avatar
vic7767
Robot Master
 
Posts: 14371
Joined: January 14th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Location: Haughton Louisiana - USA

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » March 1st, 2015, 1:19 am

I wonder why this manufacturer would not use a flash type memory for the settings, like a computer bios... I guess they just want to keep the manufacturing cost low.


Actually the Neato system is a substantial microcontroller device control computer with firmware in flash memory. Hackers have identified the major parts, e.g. for newer boards http://xv11hacking.wikispaces.com/PCB+rev.+64?responseToken=abd9082239c2811706b086edc4bac43d The flash memory is listed as NAND, one of the types (for "not-and" logic) -- 128mb. The system runs on a version of the Linux operating system (Botvac on commercial QNX). The microcontroller incorporates in one chip functions of several chips in larger machines like PC's -- controller instead of processor. A commentary on the particular processor is in the lengthy instructional refurbishing video (2nd part I think) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSLGBzEumAM&list=UUllFkMo5A0V5UKYNltNEt4Q&index=9

Why settings are not stored in flash is not clear. Some software issue, or maybe a power requirement of burning the flash, or need for a separate small flash. Enginners needed.
[edit] Since there is no separate clock chip and the cpu is the clock, losing setting when shut down, maybe they figured schedules would be meaningless and might as well require re-entry as well. Maybe the scheduling routines would crash without the clock set, the way written. Only The Shadow knows.
Last edited by glnc222 on March 3rd, 2015, 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4541
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby superhuat » March 1st, 2015, 10:34 pm

Hi all,

Fistly, I would like to thank everyone efforts in trying to solve the green dim issue. Personally I'm using the XV-21 with no problems at all. However , my fren's XV-12 have this green dim issue(symptoms actually the same). Following the suggested way to wake it up via USB connection to computer works. I even tried connecting a portable 5V USB charger via microUSB cable to it and it works as well(reason being - it seems that by just supplying a 5V to the machine via the USB connector wakes it up according to whats being explained in earlier posts).

However, I'm also keen to try the replacement of C10 cap and see if it does solve the green dim issue once and for all.

Will open the machine up tonite ......

Will update again when done. :)

Thanks again.
superhuat
 
Posts: 1
Joined: March 1st, 2015, 10:17 pm

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby klingenfelter » March 2nd, 2015, 12:35 pm

All

Thanks for the PBC schematic. After pocking around with my multi-meter I found that the voltage on the source of Q14 D-Pak was 23.5 VDC, and the drain was at 14.9 VDC, the same voltage as the batteries with no load. The Gate was 22.7 VCDC so it seems Q14 was not conducting. Also the Gate of Q15 was ) 0 VDC as was the grounded source, the Drain of Q15 was 22.6 VDC, neither MOSFET was conducting (my EE is a bit rusty). Thus is seems the U8-61 High rate charging was not high and perhaps U8 was not booting. I don't have a schematic of the supply regulator for the processors but poking around C10 this seems to be 3.3 VDC. Is this correct.

Anyway it after tinkering around with the USB port and removing replacing the batteries it boots and the LDC lights up. The only problem is it the LCD appears to be in a foreign language; for Support the word reads "Podpora", or at least when Google translates this it comes up "Support", and its at the bottom of the menus.

Does anyone know what to do with this?

Keith
klingenfelter
 
Posts: 11
Joined: February 18th, 2015, 4:39 pm

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » March 2nd, 2015, 1:06 pm

reset the language in LCD menu you are presently reading in other than English, using positions in:
language.jpg
glnc222
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4541
Joined: January 23rd, 2012, 9:19 pm
Location: North Carolina, U.S.

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby klingenfelter » March 2nd, 2015, 1:12 pm

Thanks simple. The only problem was "Language" was in Slavic, Cestina maybe think.

Keith
klingenfelter
 
Posts: 11
Joined: February 18th, 2015, 4:39 pm

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Gordon » March 2nd, 2015, 8:00 pm

klingenfelter wrote:... I found that the voltage on the source of Q14 D-Pak was 23.5 VDC, and the drain was at 14.9 VDC, the same voltage as the batteries with no load. The Gate was 22.7 VCDC so it seems Q14 was not conducting. Also the Gate of Q15 was ) 0 VDC as was the grounded source, the Drain of Q15 was 22.6 VDC, neither MOSFET was conducting (my EE is a bit rusty). Thus is seems the U8-61 High rate charging was not high ...
Keith, please give attention to the MOSFETs' channel types. The power MOSFET gate-driver xstrs (SOT-23 size) are all N-Channel FETs, thus when the control signal from U8-61 is zero volts the FET Q15 is in high-Z state. That high-Z condition permits resistor R93 to pull up P-Channel Q14G to V_Q14S, which then holds Q14 in the high-Z state and no charging current passes to the battery.

Thus you correctly measure charging voltage (23.5V) at Q14S and battery voltage (14.9V) at Q14D.
I don't have a schematic of the supply regulator for the processors but poking around C10 this seems to be 3.3 VDC. Is this correct. ...
Nor have I seen a schematic diagram showing power distribution from regulators U4 and U23. I too have been poking around U4 & U23. You are correct, U4-Q = +3.3VREG, and continuity checks indicate that supply voltage is delivered to U8 pins: 1, 13, 19, 32, 48, and 64.
Gordon
Robot Master
 
Posts: 4304
Joined: April 6th, 2005, 2:02 am
Location: Santa Ynez, CA USA

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby mmm2000 » March 3rd, 2015, 12:06 am

SUCCESS ! :D :D :D :D :D

I replaced the C10 capacitor (25v, 100 microf) with a capacitor 35V and 220microf. The place I bought it from has ran out of the 25v 220 mf. But the 35V seems to work fine, as well.

After a good 2 hours, and 3 screws left unused :oops: , my robot woke up within 7 seconds after switching it to the on position. :cheers:

I spent another 10 minutes putting all the other screws and stuff on it and I tried to wake it up again and it did !
Before it would go into the "green dim" mode and I could only wake it up with my usb cable and my computer, after several tries.

So this worked for me, so far. No more "green dim" mode. I will try to update from 3.2 to 3.4 (which is I believe the latest update available), after failing to do so because of the "green dim" issue.

Thank you guys! You saved my a lot of aggravation with having to send it for repair.

I will post an update here after me trying to update the robot to 3.4. After that I will post another update on how it is working after a few cleaning runs, so in about 2 or 3 weeks. Fingers crossed !

Thank again ! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
mmm2000
 
Posts: 29
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 3:14 am

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby mmm2000 » March 3rd, 2015, 12:48 am

So far the green dim issue is fixed, but it won't update... :evil:

I have 3.2 right now on XV14 robot. The updater tool starts communicating with the robot, reboots the robot and after a total of about 2 minutes I get a communication error and it gives me the option to retry. I'm stuck.

Anybody else had problems with updating after or before replacing the C10 capacitor?

The driver installs fine, the software installs fine, I tried to run the update in firefox and safari and with or without windows firewall on. I also tried 2 different USB cables and on 2 different USB ports. No success... I have Windows 7, 64 bit, with Intel CPU.
mmm2000
 
Posts: 29
Joined: February 8th, 2015, 3:14 am

PreviousNext

Return to Neato Robotics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Brett, CherkyB, Franzl, moradi2, susantx3, Wing Nut and 337 guests