Wake Neato up from dead mode

News and information about the Neato XV-11 Robotic Vacuum. All discussion and troubleshooting questions go here.

Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby dsstrainer » April 14th, 2016, 10:34 am

I just performed a successful C10-ectomy on my XV-21 and we are back in business :)
It was about a 2 hour process... and yes I have 2 extra screws left over because I couldn't remember where they went... but there were a LOT of unnecessary screws in that pig to begin with so I think it's ok. The patient is in recovery but I gave it a run late last night for about 2 mins and it seems to be working fine.
:cheers:
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Brett » April 15th, 2016, 8:31 am

dsstrainer wrote:... and yes I have 2 extra screws left over ...

Those two under the dust bin?

(-8
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Fruit flies like a banana!

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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby grapedrink » April 21st, 2016, 10:17 pm

dsstrainer wrote:I just performed a successful C10-ectomy on my XV-21 and we are back in business :)
It was about a 2 hour process... and yes I have 2 extra screws left over because I couldn't remember where they went... but there were a LOT of unnecessary screws in that pig to begin with so I think it's ok. The patient is in recovery but I gave it a run late last night for about 2 mins and it seems to be working fine.
:cheers:


Don't hold your breath. It will begin developing issues soon.

Like you, I thought the C10 replacement would solve issues with the Vac completely but it doesn't.
What happens with mine is every time I run, I start the cleaning run, and after 5 minutes, the vac reports low battery. Then I have to carry it and put it back the charging dock, after it charges for about 10 minutes only then does it run for about 15-30 minutes.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby vic7767 » April 21st, 2016, 11:00 pm

grapedrink wrote:Don't hold your breath. It will begin developing issues soon.
How old are the packs in your Neato?
Roomba and Neato Mods, come visit: http://www.vic7767.com/
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » April 21st, 2016, 11:10 pm

Short charging time and short run time are symptoms of defective batteries which do not hold a charge, have lost capacity. The small capacity is quickly filled and drained. The charger detects normal end of charging condition, battery filled, but not much charge has been added.

The end of charging is signaled by heating in NiMh batteries.
Defective or worn batteries will show voltages similar to good ones and just exhibit low capacity.

Of course, the charging process can also be at fault. Over USB there is a Fuel Gauge per cent which should show close to 100 when finished charging, but I am not sure how affected by worn batteries. The charging current can be observed over USB etc. There have been cases of defective docks.
It is also possible the sensor circuits for monitoring the battery are not working properly, in which case the system board would need replacement.

Besides C10 some users have replaced all the electrolytic capacitors. C10 was involved in power supply to the cpu and memory, not starting up properly. A unique situation occurred where the processor saw an empty memory starting too slow, and went into firmware update mode.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Siggy169 » April 28th, 2016, 6:33 am

I can not believe that Neato havent yet fixed this issue.

I had an XV21 that eventually died 1 week after the warranty expired, and by died I mean it would no longer charge, just sit on the dock flashing its green light at me and doing nothing. New batteries extended its life by a few months and the USB trick by a few weeks, after that nothing.

I read others had issues but I thought I just had a lemon - as when it worked it was absolutely fantastic and my wife loved it.

3 months after it dies I decided to get another one - I know I am stupid - a Botvac 85 - I seriously thought they would have solved this issue by now.

BUT NO - if it doesnt make it back to base for any reason, it shuts down and dies. This is only 4 months old. I have been doing the power off and leave off the base for 15 mins and then power on and oput back on base, and that has been working for the last 2 months.
Now - nothing - red flashing led, and then green solid LED and then stays green but doesnt charge or turn on again.

They seriously need to look at their software and pit some tolerance into it so that the robot doesnt just die if it cant get back to base /end rant

Does anyone know how to revive a botvac 85 please?
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby JEfromCanada » April 28th, 2016, 8:35 am

If your unit is only a few months old, you should get it replaced under warranty rather than trying to fix it.
Current robots:
Roomba Discovery 4210 (R.I.P. - Freecycled)
Roomba 560 (retired)
Neato XV-11 SW version 3.1.17844, LDS version 2.6.15295, with Pet Brush and Vic's filter (sold)
Neato Botvac 80 SW version 1.1.97, LDS version 2.6.15295, Board SW version 22753
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby Siggy169 » April 29th, 2016, 4:42 am

Thanks,
That's my next step - but it is a hassle!
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby shirgal » May 9th, 2016, 6:07 am

Siggy169
To revive your D85 try holding the start for 15sec or more until no light is visible,
Than click start again and watch if it revives to life.
Let me know how it went.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby korna » January 22nd, 2017, 7:38 am

On my XV-25 I had the constant green led and no display problem. So I replaced the C10 capacitor and all others of the same type. The XV-25 starts up however, I now get error "battery issue 0002".

Any suggestions on how to diagnose the problem?
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » January 22nd, 2017, 1:46 pm

Power it on the dock if necessary and read battery conditions over USB (with Neato Control Program etc.).
We do not have definitions of the different battery error numbers, but a search of the forum shows a lot of them are due to depressed pins in the battery Molex connector. Press on the pins (both battery and Neato sides) with a screw driver to see if firmly fastened. Depressed ones can sometimes be fixed just pulling up with pliers.
Neato measures battery voltage, current, and temperature shown over USB, and responds to anomalies preventing normal operation with error messages. The battery switch on some units can also be faulty.
One user reported an interesting procedure of booting the computer on the dock with the battery disconnected and then connecting the battery after the cpu is running.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » February 3rd, 2017, 11:53 pm

Repair Videos
Several Youtube videos show this repair, some with dubious soldering technique:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw4JVeu5pxs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHdOYKNjcV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR7yx-E1Y14

The electrolytic capacitor is polarized, observe the orientation and markings + and -. To remove the capacitor apply iron to the back side on one pin while inserting a knife blade under and prying up. Alternate between pins to lift out pins a little at a time. User sucking tool to remove solder from hole, applying iron to back and sucker to the front.
Also once lifted slightly the pins can be clipped and the remainder pulled with pliers while heating.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby gillspie » February 23rd, 2018, 7:09 pm

I have the same thing with a XV-11. I think it is the usb driver but I don't know what to do to fix it.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby neato-fan » February 28th, 2018, 10:09 pm

Just replaced C10 in my older XV-21 with Rubicon CAP ALUM 120uF 20% 35V RADIAL (35YXG120MEFC8X11.5 http://d.digikey.com/THpSi000p00emXO00N1J7K0).

The old one had 197nF left from 100uF, so basically no capacity left. There is no need for cap with higher capacity as it increases the size and could make fit issues.

No more occasional dim light :D . I did not bother with the rest of the capacitors (all the same capacity and voltage rating), as replacement is kind of difficult due to desoldering complications.

Just one advise, be careful with logic board and laser mounting screws, make sure they are pre-threaded into original threads, otherwise the plastic base becomes very brittle over time and can crack easy when forcing the screw to re-thread the hole.
Also, I found - it is way easier to connect top cover wires and flip vac upside down, then lift lower half at the bumper side slightly and install side sensor arms into bumper (on the bottom and push them into the bumper), then lower the bottom half, it will stuck on the tips of the sensor springs, now just take flat screwdriver and compress every switch spring slightly and push it down - the spring will snap into place, then just secure bumper with deep hole screws. Otherwise, it was taking way to long to get all arms to align and they are quite loose when resting on the bottom half.

Ah, and when you power it back, do not forget to set clock and most important - go to "Support" and select "New Battery" to make sure it is recalibrated after power loss.

Good Luck!
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby eplur » March 29th, 2018, 9:44 pm

Thank you so much n00. That fixed it. i didn't get the display at the beginning but connecting to laptop with neato also connected to power worked.
Thanks a million.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby renault5gtt » March 25th, 2019, 3:39 pm

Hi,

First I would like to thank all ya for great tips and stuff with green light of dead thingy.
I had it with my VX-25, I got fed up booting the robo thru PC or USB and changed the C10 capacitor.
I guess it went ok, because Neato was instantly back from the dead. I was so proud of myself and tried to do test run with spot cleaning.... bam. My brush is stuck error. Robo worked before flawless, without any other issues but dying with green light. There are no hair or other debris on the motor, I keep it clean. Also brush is moving nicely when rolling it with fingers.
I tried to force the motors with Neato Control and no issues on that. It runs smoothly. Don't know actual RPM's but looks and feels normal. (Is there any way to check the RPM?)
Why it's working with Neato Control.. but not when I try to vacuum?

So I'm little bit helpless what to try next... or should I just go to shop and buy new D5 or similar?

This is my 2nd VX, got also Essential which LCD went "black". They send me somekind of refurbished black Darth Vader looking VX, but it's also wasted. It eats batteries for some reason.
Same batteries are working on that VX-25 for 40-45 mins.. but in that other one just for 2 minutes and back for charging. Neato Control battery calibration works for some days.. and same thing after that.. I just cannot vacuum more than 5 minutes, pretty annoying.

That's my story. I would be really greatul for any help or tips.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » March 25th, 2019, 6:59 pm

Without solving your brush problem I can at least note the cleaning RPM of the Neato brush is 1200 RPM. When running the brush motor in Test Mode with Neato Control or terminal emulator, there is no default value and you must put the RPM parameter in the command.

Detection of brush blockage is by tachometer on the motor, used to control rpm, which will detect failure to turn when the motor is powered to spin. Defects in this detector could produce false interruptions triggering a blockage error declaration. As an intermittent failure, such things are hard to reproduce reliably to identify a particular component failure. Any component in the tachometer circuit could be involved. I think the magnetic spin sensor is part of the motor, but I have not worked on it.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby renault5gtt » March 26th, 2019, 4:34 am

Hi glnc222,

Thank you for your reply. With those test which I run with Neato Control I might presume that brush motor itself is ok. Donno if the Neato Control is reading the RPM's or does it just "force" the motor on and off without knowing if RPM control is failing?

Could I have missed something when replacing C10 with the new capacitor 220uF 35V or just broked the mainboard? I can check the wiring again... but feels little bit strange if motor is working in tests, also I could try to change the hole motor from another one but the problem one just worked before the C10 change :(
I wouldn't want to change the hole mainboard, because the other one seems to have some issues with battery calibration...

sigh :/
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby benpieter » April 16th, 2019, 5:34 am

I had exactly the same issue as you had after replacing C10. With Neatocontrol in the command bar you can start the brush motor. I noticed the RPM was a zero. The issue was with the cable itself. Make sure the cable from the brush motor is well guided and doesn't get squeezed between the top cover plate while placing it back. Once I figured that out the four wires got squeezed I used tape to guide the cable to make sure the RPM signal is coming through.
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Re: Wake Neato up from dead mode

Postby glnc222 » April 16th, 2019, 3:39 pm

Neato is going to measure the RPM whether it reports it on a Neato Control screen or not, in order to control it with PWM modulation of motor power.
If I recall correctly the C10 capacitor is for the regulated power supply for the microcontroller or cpu, and memory, with a complex effect: delay in starting the memory allows the cpu to read it blank, initiating firmware update mode where it is stuck waiting for new firmware to fill the supposedly empty memory. Some fancy job with oscilloscopes was done by an expert to identify this, in Russia. This all applies to a power-up sequence for the cpu, not a glitch when running the program code. There is also some 3v linear regulator in the power supply.
The original failure identified was just a short delay in the memory power coming on compared to the cpu starting up.
Larger systems might have an active hold on start up until power supplies stabilize (the voltage comparator I used ICL7665 is specified for such applications).
Sorry not much help.
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