VR9000 Disassembly

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VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 27th, 2016, 11:25 pm

E-Switch Off Remove Battery press small clip on bottom of connector and pull up on battery cable. Turn bot over and battery slides out into your hand, don't tug on wires. Remove the bottom screw by the left wheel.
Remove black buttons cover pulling up with fingernails on back end where it reads SAMSUNG. Slide cover forward and down to release front clips.
Remove vacuum cover pressing in and up where it reads CYCLONE Force.
Disconnect buttons connector by lightly pulling up on the top clip and moving connector away from buttons PCA.
Remove the 3 screws around the back of the bot exposed by removing the buttons cover and the screw exposed by removing the the vacuum cover.
Remove the top chassis buttons assembly lifting it up from the back.
I'm sure I'll have it all apart again as I found no problem except very low gearing.
When I have a chance I'll take both apart and compare them and post pictures.
Haven't found a diagnostic routine yet.
Essential Wheels are identical to the 9050. The bins and filters are identical. Vacuum motor impeller much different but would fit. Didn't check PCA for compatibility. Both have 21.6V 84.24Wh 3.9Ah batteries. The main PCAs look the same, 9020 labeled Light. Probably different software. I would need to check the stand alone bin boards also.
Attachments
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Wheel gears
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Last edited by a1robotrepair on June 28th, 2016, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 28th, 2016, 5:34 pm

The 9050 is now off and running well. It appears that it was a "floor display". Apparently, the Powerbot doesn't like side to side torque on its wheels. There is some binding happening in the gears but nearly impossible to tell without a laser mic.
Now I have a parts bot, Essential 9020 without Wheels.
Need parts? The main boards are interchangeable, software build tags tell the difference.

9050 Pros
Much stronger vacuum, picked up more than 9020 2 hours after 9020 ran.
Clock and Scheduling
Max Mode
9050 Cons
Rides up on claw legs and others occasionally. Much like our NC friends YouTube.
1st run on max 50min. 2nd run on max 2nd battery 51min.
9020 Pros
Better navigation, smoother around chair legs, rides closer to edges, no hang ups except in small 1/2 bath between the vanity and toilet. Our 880 will close the door and give that bath a through sweep. I'll keep the door closed.
3 runs on auto 1st 65min 2nd 44min 3rd 40min. Third run stuck w/o activating cliff, returned to normal run, didn't start over, 1st run, activated cliff manually and bot started new cleaning cycle on opposite side of house, returned to that side far from dock and made left hand turns with everything off except wheels, perimeter search, until it found the dock. Cliffs reset map?
Attachments
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9020
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9020
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9050
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9050
Last edited by a1robotrepair on July 2nd, 2016, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby takedown » June 30th, 2016, 9:15 am

How did u manage to take apart the wheel ?
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 30th, 2016, 12:11 pm

On right side, remove remaining 3 screws of the vacuum assembly and set it aside.
Remove the wheel connector from the wheel assembly.
2 screws hold each wheel assembly. Remove and the assembly comes out easily.
Remove the spring.
On the edge of your bench, position wheel assembly with the motor and encoder hanging down so that they are not touching anything, free hanging in air.
#2 screw driver and small hammer, tap screw in center of wheel to break thread locker. Try to unscrew, you may have to tap it a few times to change the molecular structure. Remove the screw, I found an adjustable torque drill to be quite handy, 12V Dewalt set on 10.
Pry the tire/wheel from the rest of the assembly with your fingers exposing 3 more screws also thread locked.
Remove in same fashion.
Remove the metal square drive cog from the drive shaft.
Remove the remaining 2 screws and small housing, no thread locker.
On the long side,top and bottom of the gearbox, are 2 snap clips. With straight tip jewlers, unclip the top,hardest to get to first, then bottom and the gearbox cover comes off.
These are by far the easiest bots yet to tear down and repair mechanically, board repair will be very difficult.
Last edited by a1robotrepair on June 30th, 2016, 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » June 30th, 2016, 2:10 pm

Front end disassembly later post below http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=138386#p138386

[added]from https://www.partmaster.uk.co
Image
Image


Grease in the gear box?

no hang ups except in small 1/2 bath between the vanity and toilet

These bots insist on spinning around to always go forward, instead of backing out of tight spots. The wider front takes room. The round ones have an advantage there. Powerbot little wider than Neato's, Botvac wider than XV. They need space to turn. Furniture can need some moving and blocking off. There is a warning in the manual.
Curious they have no better maneuvering software. Lidar is better at mapping the close in space but not clear Neato uses it. The Powerbot actually works better under one problem cabinet, less pointless spinning, failing to get out.

9050 Pros Much stronger vacuum, picked up more than 9020 2 hours after 9020 ran.

I wonder if the battery in the 9050 has larger capacity than the 9020.[edit] oops -- " Both have 21.6V 84.24Wh 3.9Ah batteries."

Ideally some ammeter measures of the motors would be interesting, besides anemometer measures of air flow.
The Max mode on the 9050 is longer run time while the 9250,9350 double the total current drain for half the run time. I did not see much improved cleaning. It may wear out the battery faster. The Normal mode seems to be at an inflection point in the air flow turbulence which may consume a lot of additional power. Still some improvement shown in the hard floor suction (see main VR9000 thread).
[edit] What kind of flooring -- carpets? Probably best to get the more powerful model for carpets. There are new lower suction specs in the U.S. website only, showing lower levels in models below 9050/51. Weird to have this range of different powers, confusing customers. It implies the products are not real appliances, just curious gadgets.

I don't have cliffs to test resetting the map. Usually lost when it shuts down in a trap, not while running.
Beware half hour timer off the dock, to set off in search of the dock. It will poke into every corner of the house seeking the dock taking as long as necessary (little power drain from just the wheels).

I cannot reproduce at will the hang up on claw feet etc.(including caster wheels exposed on office chairs) but am running with the cliff sensors covered to see if makes any difference. The same hang up can occur with straight furniture legs as the side gets levered up.
Sometimes this makes no difference, sometimes a trap occurs. Combination with a wheel stall may be the trigger, will see over time. At least the bot sets off straight ahead when started, which can assist in setting up tests. Under manual guidance the sensors seem to be ignored.

The Dirt Detector works -- every now and then against a wall it revs up and pauses for extra work.
Last edited by glnc222 on July 2nd, 2016, 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » June 30th, 2016, 4:09 pm

How big is the space? How does run time and number of recharges required compare to the Neato?
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 30th, 2016, 4:36 pm

On the lighter side: Bratland still can't join the service, too old, age descrimation?

A bit of silicon grease in the gearbox, yes. I think it was a display model, from looking at the gearbox, extreme manual side To side force could twist things out of shape. I haven't put it under tight scrutiny yet.

Reversing out of tight areas would be much better. Running the 9050 on auto seams to be a much better pattern with fewer hang ups. The 9020 V23 09/2015 software is better than the 9050s V21 08/2015 as far as edge following and getting into and out of tight areas. It also runs a single pass and returns to dock as opposed to running to battery drained in max or auto, 9050 method.

I did notice the second pass by the 9050 is where it does the sides and tight areas more throughly, getting hung up more.

I think the Powerbot will be perfect for the 2nd floor bedrooms and foyer as it will fit beneath the beds and clean without the need of lighthouses, Roomba. The top floor is too difficult for a mapping bot, bump and run works best with a great room setup, dining table, bar stools, sectional in the middle of the room and 2 person tall table and chairs. Not to mention kids, grandkids, siblings and their families and stuff in and out and in the way. I like it when they arrive and love it when they leave.

1000sqft total, 500sqft open to bot, furniture...
If I get within a stone throw of a Neato it will never run again. :violin: RIP OTAEN

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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 30th, 2016, 5:34 pm

Now we need to increase the cliff distance? Robocleaner, Glnc, 3deg, any ideas?
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » June 30th, 2016, 6:01 pm

If you do not have cliffs you can disable the cliff sensors with a faux floor, covering with light colored masking tape or paper.

Not enough detail on your cliff problem. What cliff? I don't have cliff's so hard to say.

I don't see any recalibration needed.

You could modify the sensing by inserting small circuits in the output of the sensors, typically a voltage signal between 1 and 3v according to distance, check the particular part. Similar modifications are shown in the Neato forum "optical boundary marking", using an opamp for mixing. I do not see what can be gained given parameters of the problem below. Beware mistakes as these sensors are sensitive to wrong voltages and wiring.

It turns out all of these IR sensors have a problem with certain black carpets or pattern sections (most black materials are not as absorbent). It is tricky. The sensor must be set to allow a navigable drop and reject ones too deep. So IR absorbent material will be an inherent problem. I can imagine other cliff sensing methods such as physical contact switches which could be combined with IR -- maybe on the front rollers. Originally noted on Roomba's but since reported on Powerbot's (both fixed by covering the cliff sensors). Probably the same on Neato's but no user reports -- few people have black carpet patterns.
I have a stop clock on the dock triggered by a Neato cliff sensor and custom circuit to measure the run time. A little bit of tape on the black bot for sensing.

The Powerbot can navigate carpet floors impossible for Neato's without modification, if even then. It all depends on your furnishing.
Still cannot navigate the Premium Wamsutta Fluffy Bath Rugs which are claimed to be handled by the forever forthcoming Third Degree. Is it soup yet?
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 30th, 2016, 6:38 pm

I have cliffs! Stairs and a 10 foot drop, opening under open spirals.
Increasing the distance the cliff sensor senses could defeat most of the problems with tight chair leg hang ups where there shouldn't be any. Not too much, another 1/2 an inch should do it, 1.25cm for the rest the of world.

Reprogramming would be better, you can get the open source code from Samsung. Probably vendor code rewritten for their specific applications, The connector is marked but the hardware/software used to connect/program not identified. On main board, tear down required.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » June 30th, 2016, 7:57 pm

Apology I do not understand what is happening at your cliffs. Going over the cliff? Shutting down? What exactly is the faulty behavior?
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » June 30th, 2016, 8:44 pm

My cliffs work as intended. When the bot turns and the front rides up a chair leg it sometimes faults on the cliffs. If the cliffs could see a little extra distance the bot would be off the chair leg and continue without problems. I want the cliffs to continue to function. If I'm not mistaken, I think it's only the left one that needs to be lowered.

Looking at these, I think it could be a simple mod. All mechanical, moving the cliff down. These bots are very easy to dis and reassemble. I've just begun with these. Can't wait until I have time to hack these.

The batteries in the 9050 and the 9020 are identical, 21.6V 3.9Ah.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » June 30th, 2016, 11:21 pm

Another possible treatment is what had to be done with Neato's for lamp bases etc., lowering the bumper. It is harder to do on Powerbot with its thin bumper structure -- it would likely require screws or pins through the bumper to attach a stiff outer addition. [edit] maybe not -- see later post below http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=138379#p138379
This way the bot would bounce off the claw feet instead of climbing where it is not supposed to be. I have not studied all the possible methods of extension.
Possibly an extension which would just stall the wheels without pressing the bumper switch would work and be easier to attach.
It also depends on the exact shape of the claw feet, whether there is a useful extension which would engage them without the bot climbing.
[edit] perhaps there is enough surface area on the bumper for a full coating of epoxy to work, and I've found that can be scraped off if necessary, without punching holes in the bumper.

Example of the trap from main VR9000 thread
Image

[edit] Angled chair leg may not depress the bumper 3/4 in. above floor, and slip under the bot to lift.
Last edited by glnc222 on July 3rd, 2016, 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » July 1st, 2016, 3:47 am

For extending the bumper I might try attachment with removable 3M Command double sided foam adhesive or 3M auto trim double sided tape (in auto parts stores), with vascoelastic (memory) foam. The bumper is a 1/4 in. wide strip 3/4 in. above the floor, and needs an additional 1/4 in. or 5/16 in. below. The kind of plastic corner guard used for the Neato XV, which can bend around the curve, might be suitable. The curved sides create strength by directing inward pressure into sideways pressures around the other side of the curve. No telling until tried.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » July 1st, 2016, 7:39 am

Right wheel fixed.
Removed gears, cleaned, lubed with clean grease and put back together.
Left wheel still binding after same procedure.
The output gear/driveshaft has drag/grinding.
I can see bearings added to the output shaft of the wheels in the near future.
Extremely poor design. The iRobot red CHM was a better design. 1 flake of dirt, a hair, plastic shaving or metal shaving and the wheel gears are toast.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » July 1st, 2016, 7:35 pm

Bumper Extension

Drops the supplied 3/4 in. high bumber edge to 3/8 in.
3/4 in. OD self-stick corner guard from Ace Hardware $3 appears to stick with supplied glue (made to protect painted wall outside corners). Cuts with scissors and knives. This type of vinyl plastic can be worked cold into the corner curves (bend completely to fit before gluing). Clean with alcohol first as recommended most glues. Will have to see how holds up.
A bit of the right angle is preserved across the front bottom for stiffness. Not needed.
4ft package, 16 in. for the Powerbot bumper.
This one is borderline too low as on the carpet at least, with raised dock, Powerbot has to wiggle a bit to get onto the dock. I will trim out a front section. [edit] seems to be the dock contacts raised above the dock high. It still docks, pushing the bumper over. Still snags at 1/2 in. high bumper.

BumperLow1.JPG


BumperLow2.JPG


Such extensions were needed on Neato's for similar problems of climbing lamp bases, tubular chair legs etc. getting stuck. http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17368&hilit=bumper+lowering

[edit] With a half inch high bumber it still rides up onto 1 in. tubular chair legs -- but does not get stuck. It backs off. Robust in its own way. Maybe 3/8 in. would bounce, not tested.
Last edited by glnc222 on July 3rd, 2016, 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » July 2nd, 2016, 5:44 pm

Separating the front end from the rear.
Unplug charging, sensors and ARM connectors from main PCA by pressing down on back end of clip while using fingernails to pull connector away from PCA.
Remove the cables from the cable clamp.
Remove the 4 screws from the chassis exposed by removing the bin.

Removing the top cover.
Turn front end over and remove the 4 screw from the bottom.
Turn front up and using a light twisting action, pull up on the front cover.
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/download/file.php?id=8690&mode=view 9350 front end.
Attachments
image.jpeg
9350 front exposed by vic7767
image.jpeg
The stand alone vacuum motor board of the 9020. 9050 doesn't have this board. The Main PCAs are not interchangeable unless the vacuum assemblies are changed out also. The 9050 button/display board will work in the 9020 but 9020 not in 9050.
image.jpeg
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Last edited by a1robotrepair on August 5th, 2016, 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » July 3rd, 2016, 2:34 pm

1st mod to eliminate fender trim hang ups. Remove inside trim, 3 clips, outside trim, 1 screw and 4 clips. Drill 3 new clip holes for inside trim piece moved far front.
Attachments
image.jpeg
Eliminated double corner hang up on bed post by removing trim. It now slides by without a problem.
Last edited by a1robotrepair on July 3rd, 2016, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby glnc222 » July 3rd, 2016, 3:31 pm

Compare to original shown below.
Image

Irfanview used to add arrows and labels, reduce contrast on black items.
I am not sure what role this fixture plays in traps vs the climbing at corners. It all depends on the furniture. Better safe than...

Top view 9050
TopView9050.jpg
Last edited by glnc222 on July 3rd, 2016, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VR9000 Disassembly

Postby a1robotrepair » July 3rd, 2016, 6:29 pm

The 9050/20 trim modified Powerbot.
Front end of 9020, the sensors are a bit better, no real difference between both front ends.
Modded 9020 fender applied to 9050 chassis rear with button/display of 9050.
What one ends up with when they have 2 to make 1.
This Powerbot doesn't get hung up anymore, even in the 1/2 bath.
Complete bot, power supply, charger and remote with 9020 bot with one bad wheel.
Attachments
image.jpeg
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