Charging Error 3

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Charging Error 3

Postby Bobtb » March 1st, 2011, 4:59 am

Ok, I have a 560 series mainboard that keeps giving me charging error 3. Battery is not the problem as it had been tested with a working one. It is confirm to be the mainboard as the same battery charges and work fine on the other 550.

I bought another used 560 which also had a charging error 7 every 4 hrs into charging and also verified to be the mainboard problem. Any advice with the charging error 3 & 7? Which is the charging FETs that Gordon mention on the sticky post for fixing the false charging systom?

TIA
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby iMayne » March 1st, 2011, 12:14 pm

Hi.

You will need to reply to that topic and your answer maybe answered there; hopefully.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby TechGuy » March 1st, 2011, 12:47 pm

Bobtb wrote:Ok, I have a 560 series mainboard that keeps giving me charging error 3. Battery is not the problem as it had been tested with a working one. It is confirm to be the mainboard as the same battery charges and work fine on the other 550.

I bought another used 560 which also had a charging error 7 every 4 hrs into charging and also verified to be the mainboard problem. Any advice with the charging error 3 & 7? Which is the charging FETs that Gordon mention on the sticky post for fixing the false charging systom?

TIA


From the Service Manual, Charging Error 7
Battery not Cooling. This occurs when the battery doesn’t cool within 4 hours. Most likely the battery thermistor is shorted.

If your battery works on your 550, the thermistor on your battery is working and your battery is not the problem. Bend the small battery contacts up slightly in the battery compartment. If this does not fix the Err7 problem, the component reading the thermistor value on mainboard may be the problem.

From the Service Manual, Charging Error 3
Charging FET Failed. The occurs when the FET test fails at the beginning of the charge cycle.

The battery contacts may not have good contact with the battery. Bend the large contacts and try charging again. If you have a SCI cable, get the charging logs.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Gordon » March 1st, 2011, 12:57 pm

iMayne wrote:...You will need to reply to that topic and your answer maybe answered there; hopefully.
No. Bobtb did such a post and I had to tell him the error(s) were off topic (you should have seen that exchange); so he has correctly started a new thread.

TechGuy has given him good information & guidance.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Gordon » March 1st, 2011, 1:09 pm

Bobtb wrote:... Any advice with the charging error 3 & 7? Which is the charging FETs that Gordon mention on the sticky post for fixing the false charging systom?...
I can't see how you arrived at the conclusion that charging FETs are related to the false charging issue! Can you point to where I said something like that?

As far as I know, the false charging fault is not accompanied by any error message. I can see that it should report Err5 (charging current too low for too long), but not Err3 or Err7.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby bhylak » March 1st, 2011, 1:43 pm

Yes, just in case the op doesn't understand, the false charging problem is where the Roomba continues to charge itself even after it is unplugged/undocked. The Roomba really thinks it is still charging, and is charging itself from itself, so no error is reported.

Sorry if anyone thinks this is a repeat of what Gordon said, I tried to put it in simpler terms.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Gordon » March 1st, 2011, 2:03 pm

bhylak wrote:Yes, just in case the op doesn't understand, the false charging problem is where the Roomba continues to charge itself even after it is unplugged/undocked. The Roomba really thinks it is still charging, and is charging itself from itself, so no error is reported. ...
Very good, bhylak. The only edit I can suggest is to insert the word apparently two places, to make your sentences read this way: ...the false charging problem is where the Roomba continues to apparently charge itself even after it is unplugged/undocked. The Roomba really thinks it is still charging, and is apparently charging itself from itself, so no error is reported.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby bhylak » March 1st, 2011, 4:31 pm

Right, thanks.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Bobtb » March 2nd, 2011, 5:37 am

TechGuy wrote:From the Service Manual, Charging Error 7
Battery not Cooling. This occurs when the battery doesn’t cool within 4 hours. Most likely the battery thermistor is shorted.

If your battery works on your 550, the thermistor on your battery is working and your battery is not the problem. Bend the small battery contacts up slightly in the battery compartment. If this does not fix the Err7 problem, the component reading the thermistor value on mainboard may be the problem.

From the Service Manual, Charging Error 3
Charging FET Failed. The occurs when the FET test fails at the beginning of the charge cycle.

The battery contacts may not have good contact with the battery. Bend the large contacts and try charging again. If you have a SCI cable, get the charging logs.


Yes, it gives me a charging error 7 every 4 hrs and the battery is confirmed to be fine. The contacts had already been tried. Which is the component reading the value?

As for charging FET, I know the manual says test fail that's why I was asking Gordon which component is the FET. It might not be it but since the board is useless now, I just wanna try my luck. I have a cable (the one on irobot site with a USB end, I hope this is the one you're refering to) somewhere but I do not know where is it now and had never use it before.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Bobtb » March 2nd, 2011, 5:42 am

Gordon wrote:
Bobtb wrote:... Any advice with the charging error 3 & 7? Which is the charging FETs that Gordon mention on the sticky post for fixing the false charging systom?...
I can't see how you arrived at the conclusion that charging FETs are related to the false charging issue! Can you point to where I said something like that?

As far as I know, the false charging fault is not accompanied by any error message. I can see that it should report Err5 (charging current too low for too long), but not Err3 or Err7.


It does report Err 3 and even a lady anouncing "Charging Error 3". The Err 7 is another board, it's 2 different issue.

You did not say that problem lies with the FET but I was just hoping to try my luck on it since the board is sitting there collecting dust as I chance upon your post mentioning something about FETs. There is no harm trying as I could not find any post with solution for Err 3 or did I just miss it?
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Bobtb » March 2nd, 2011, 5:47 am

bhylak wrote:Yes, just in case the op doesn't understand, the false charging problem is where the Roomba continues to charge itself even after it is unplugged/undocked. The Roomba really thinks it is still charging, and is charging itself from itself, so no error is reported.

Sorry if anyone thinks this is a repeat of what Gordon said, I tried to put it in simpler terms.


Thanks for the 2 cents, I know what he is refering to and I now have 102 cents.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby Gordon » March 2nd, 2011, 1:30 pm

Bobtb wrote:...It does report Err 3 and even a lady anouncing "Charging Error 3". The Err 7 is another board, it's 2 different issue.
IMO, you should have kept these cases (err3 vs err7) separate, by appending to existing topical threads, or starting new ones, as necessary. In this reply I will limit my response to err3.
You did not say that problem lies with the FET but I was just hoping to try my luck on it since the board is sitting there collecting dust as I chance upon your post mentioning something about FETs. There is no harm trying as I could not find any post with solution for Err 3 or did I just miss it?
I don't recall whether err3 has been treated directly, and I did not search for it, but you might try searching again for err3, w/o a space character.

I think you may be helped by knowing more about how the Charging-FETs Test functions. With better understanding, you may be able to craft more useful search search strings and uncover applicable work.

What I say next should be prefixed with weasel words such as "as far as I know", or "our present understanding is...".

The Charging-FETs Test is performed only in the half minute following connection of charging power to Roomba.

Two power MOSFETs are connected in series to provide a means for the robot to always be able to halt charging if one of the FETs should become always-conductive (by transforming into an always closed switch (these FETs are either ON/CLOSED or OFF/OPEN; they are not operated as partially ON devices)). Their board markers are Q17 & Q18.
IOW, two in series provide a safety function. The purpose of the FETs check is to verify that each FET is controllable (i.e., when its gate voltage is HI, its channel is OPEN (high resistance), and when gate voltage is LO, the channel conducts current).

As charging voltage reaches Q17 & Q18 it normally can't pass through the FETs because they are biased OFF by battery voltage applied to their gates; and at that instant the presence of charging voltage is detected by the MCU causing it to switch from standby mode to charging mode. Charging voltage takes over the biasing job to hold FETs OFF.

The first thing done by the charging routine is to call its FETs check routine into service; and the first thing that must be known is whether charging current happens to be flowing already (which would show that both FETs are conducting when they should not). That would be Test-1; pass IF no current / fail IF current is high.

Tests two & three, individually, sequentially pull Q17 (or Q18) gate LO, then check for current flowing (through both, since in series). IF current is zero, pass, else IF current greater than 0 amps, fail. Failure shows that one FET is permanently shorted, its gate voltage has no effect, which means charging current control is via only one FET, and if it too were to become uncontrollable, the robot would be unable to halt the charging process. The MCU executes the Err3 announcement.

The final test, Test-4, pulls both FETs gates LO, turning ON both FETs, and the MCU expects to see high-rate charging current (1.3A) flowing through the battery. Pass, IF current is HI, fail IF current is below some unknown threshold. Failure here produces the Err3 announcement, but the actual fault may have nothing to do with the FETs -- it could be a PSU fault, or resistive contact along the charging path, or even the battery's cells.

If all tests pass, the charging controller removes gate-drives (gates go HI) to switch FETs OFF, and then steps up (using PWM control, rather than analog control to increase current to max.) charging current over a short interval to the high-rate level, and the battery is formally under charge.

All sampling of charging current is done by measuring voltage developed across the system's master current shunt resistance (0.05 ohms of R235//R257).

Q17 & Q18 are located in the forward, left quadrant of the mobo, as shown here:
Q17-Q18_locator.jpg


Before you fool around with testing Q17 & Q18, it would be prudent for you to read a method that discusses hand testing the charging FETs on a 4XXX-Roomba's mobo. That same process can be applied to the 5XX-Roomba mobo, but with one difference: 4XXX=Roomba's FET-gates have a single driver xstr, whereas 5XX-Roomba uses two drivers.

I will be very surprised if your 5XX-Roomba has suffered failed charging FETs -- there are several design features that, when combined, make failure of Q17 & Q18 much less likely than we saw for the 4XXX series.
Last edited by Gordon on December 11th, 2012, 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby TechGuy » March 2nd, 2011, 4:20 pm

Bobtb wrote:...I have a cable (the one on irobot site with a USB end...

I don't know what cable that iRobot sells because I made my own cable. Someone, who knows what iRobot sells, please help.

One side of the cable should have a 7-pin DIN male connector. The other side can be a USB connector or a RS-232 connector.

Here is an article on "Troubleshooting with Roomba SCI Cable". After you have determined that the charging circuit is no good, you need to replace the Q17/Q18 discussed in Gordon's post.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby vic7767 » March 2nd, 2011, 4:59 pm

iRobot sells two different RS232 cables for connecting the Create robot to a PC. One cable has a DB-9 pin connector on one end and the other end has the 7 pin mini din. There is also a USB version of the same cable. Both cables have an RS232 to TTL interface converter built in.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby bhylak » March 2nd, 2011, 6:38 pm

Right, so unless your computer has a serial port you have to get the USB version.
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Re: Charging Error 3

Postby jackie7380 » November 4th, 2013, 2:23 am

I have iRobot 530 has error 3 problems and I fix the problems today. I switch 3 battery 3 charger all the same.
The charging FET is ZXMP4A16 but I use two BP250 ( I fix iRobot 4110 won't charge it use BP250) replaced it but still the same problems error 3 I used magnifi glass took a look the battery 4 connector to contact with battery from buttom two big connector has green rusty around it , It must the battery leaking before, also inside beaide the Q18 about 8 resister both side has geen rusty same as battery connector, I used heat gun and soldering paste resoldering every rusty resister both side also the battery connector inside now is working no error 3 hope this can help someone has same problems as me. ZXMP4A16 and BP250 are same function FET fix 4100 only need one FET.
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