brush motor

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brush motor

Postby hglund » August 27th, 2005, 3:16 am

My roomba just stopped sweeping, seems like the brush motor is dead :( I don't have a warranty as I bought it overseas. Has anyone repaired one of these - are their any parts
I am very sad about having to do the vacuum cleaning myself!
HL
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Re: brush motor

Postby Gordon » August 27th, 2005, 1:15 pm

hglund wrote:...Has anyone repaired one of these...
Yes. I have been inside the Brush-Deck Motor, and may know as much about it as any outsider. However, before writing many words, I must inquire about your technical expertise and equipment. You will not find a replacement motor assembly that is 'plug and play'. OTOH, it is possible to find very similar motors (mfd by the same mfr) that will work in Roomba. But, you will be faced with transferring the 14-tooth pinion (its about 8-mm O.D.) from the duff motor to the new one. You must press a 2.3-mm dia. shaft out of the pinion, and then press the pinion onto the shaft of the new motor. Can you do those operations?
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now gear box

Postby hglund » August 27th, 2005, 10:57 pm

Hi Gordon
We have taken a closer look at it and decided that it is actually the gearbox, cos the motor runs OK, the black thing on the end with all the cogs seems to be jaming. Am I going to be able to get one of those? :?:
I very much appreciate your help
Helen
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Re: now gear box

Postby Gordon » August 28th, 2005, 12:11 am

hglund wrote:..., the black thing on the end with all the cogs seems to be jaming. ...
That is the reduction-gearing. Your problem has happened before. You will not be able to buy that assembly without buying a Discovery Roomba wrapped around it. IOW, you need to find an owner that is selling a duff Disco, and one that has failed for some other reason than a Brush-Deck problem.
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thank

Postby hglund » August 28th, 2005, 2:26 am

Thanks Gordon
Not really what I wanted to hear. Its a shame they don't supply parts.
I might have no alternative but to buy a new one from the electrical store and pay for a very looong extended warranty! This is the expensive option but I am hooked on having one run around cleaning my floors!
Many thanks
Helen
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Postby celron » August 28th, 2005, 4:58 am

Hi Helen,
I talked to Harvey Norman (Australia's retailer for Roomba) and from memory they quoted me an extra $75AUD for a 3 year warranty.... $675AUD is a lot of money for a Discovery but the 3 year warranty does still make it attractive.

I tried Mower Magic in the UK (http://www.mower-magic.co.uk/) for a brush motor but they quoted me pretty much the same as a Roomba Red would on ebay. In the end I purchased a red on ebay 'as is' for $80AUD delivered. I took the wheel cover off, unjammed the wheel, put it back together and I have a fully functioning red which looks like it had VERY little use :lol:

Good luck with your search Helen, I spoke again with Harvey Norman and the Roomba has not exactly been marching out the door so I personally doubt we'll see any other models out this way!

Cheers,

Aaron
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Consolation

Postby hglund » August 28th, 2005, 8:03 am

Thanks for your posts
My only consolation is that my dead red seems to be worth about 2/3 the orginal price in bits. After all it is only 2 months only.
Many thanks again
Helen
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Re: brush motor

Postby Terminator2 » November 16th, 2006, 7:09 pm

Gordon wrote:
hglund wrote:...Has anyone repaired one of these...
Yes. I have been inside the Brush-Deck Motor, and may know as much about it as any outsider. However, before writing many words, I must inquire about your technical expertise and equipment. You will not find a replacement motor assembly that is 'plug and play'. OTOH, it is possible to find very similar motors (mfd by the same mfr) that will work in Roomba. But, you will be faced with transferring the 14-tooth pinion (its about 8-mm O.D.) from the duff motor to the new one. You must press a 2.3-mm dia. shaft out of the pinion, and then press the pinion onto the shaft of the new motor. Can you do those operations?


Hi Gordon.

I have a Roomba Discovery with a broken brush motor. I found the identity of the motor: RS-385SH 2270
http://www.dswbrand.com/images/electrom ... -385SH.htm
I tried to contact DSWbrand but they said that i would have to buy 1000pcs (minimum order) I did not found this motor for sale any other place, so that leaves me with two choises: 1: Find 1000 friends that need a brush motor 2: Find a similar motor.
You seem to know alot about this. You know about any similar motors that will work? Or does anyone know 999 people needing a motor? (only 0.57$ per motor)
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Re: brush motor

Postby ProTech Robotics » November 16th, 2006, 9:55 pm

hglund wrote:Has anyone repaired one of these - are their any parts
HL


The repair or replacement of the brush motor is fairly easy and straight forward if you are inclined to do the replacement yourself. I have the parts needed in my ebay store. If not than the idea of buying a new unit with an extended warranty plus keep your old unit for spares is always recommended.

Chris
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Re: brush motor

Postby Gordon » November 17th, 2006, 1:55 am

Terminator2 wrote:...
Hi Gordon.

I have a Roomba Discovery with a broken brush motor. I found the identity of the motor: RS-385SH 2270.... You know about any similar motors that will work?...
Not for *new* RS-385SH-2270 motors. You will have to salvage a used brush-motor from a Roomba that died of other cause. It is possible to locate a similar Mabuchi motor, e.g., the RS-385SAwhich has many common physical features, in the surplus elex marketplace. Trouble is, you won't find them when you need one. There is also the issue of total compatibility. If you study the dimensions of the SH and SA assemblies, you will see subtle differences which require some fiddling when an odd motor is fitted to a Disco model. Similar fiddling occurs when you try to fit a motor taken from an Original Roomba model. It really is best to salvage a motor from some duff Discovery-series robot.
Tell me about your motor's failure mode / characteristics, and I might be able to suggest a change in run-time operating procedure that will prolong the death of its replacement.
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Re: brush motor

Postby Terminator2 » November 17th, 2006, 7:05 am

Gordon wrote:
Terminator2 wrote:...
Hi Gordon.

I have a Roomba Discovery with a broken brush motor. I found the identity of the motor: RS-385SH 2270.... You know about any similar motors that will work?...
Not for *new* RS-385SH-2270 motors. You will have to salvage a used brush-motor from a Roomba that died of other cause. It is possible to locate a similar Mabuchi motor, e.g., the RS-385SAwhich has many common physical features, in the surplus elex marketplace. Trouble is, you won't find them when you need one. There is also the issue of total compatibility. If you study the dimensions of the SH and SA assemblies, you will see subtle differences which require some fiddling when an odd motor is fitted to a Disco model. Similar fiddling occurs when you try to fit a motor taken from an Original Roomba model. It really is best to salvage a motor from some duff Discovery-series robot.
Tell me about your motor's failure mode / characteristics, and I might be able to suggest a change in run-time operating procedure that will prolong the death of its replacement.


Thank you for a quick answer Gordon.

I have disconected the motor completely and tried to run it directly conected to the battery. It wont start unless i turn it around with my hand. Then it starts moving. Im not sure if its moving with full performance, but it seems to work ok when it has started to move. But everytime i try to start it i have to push it manually to make it move.
I have tried to find a motor on ebay, but noone wants to ship it to Norway where I am located.
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Re: brush motor

Postby Gordon » November 21st, 2006, 2:33 am

Terminator2 wrote:...Thank you for a quick answer Gordon.
I have disconected the motor completely and tried to run it directly conected to the battery. It wont start unless i turn it around with myhand. Then it starts moving.
Quoting myself (from a SEP 2006 post: "that behavior generally means that one out five armature coils in the brush-motor is no longer functioning. Four windings will keep a motor rotating if no mechanical load is applied to its shaft. Motor-torque is very much reduced by the loss of one coil, so the motor will stop under load. Frequently, another coil will open up under such duress; resulting in total inability to run."
... Im not sure if its moving with full performance, but it seems to work ok when it has started to move.
Its not. Its not.
...I have tried to find a motor ..., but noone wants to ship it to Norway....
The brush-motor windings break at a predictable location. If you have, or know someone that has skills and equipment to extract the armaure, repair a coil-connection, then reassemble the motor, I could (in a week or two) give some guidance to avoid pitfalls.
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Postby oztambo » March 29th, 2008, 4:17 pm

I had to pack up my Roomba after the motor and Gear Box stopped working 3 months ago. I read this post and gave up.

Last week I blew out my knee so now I am totally bored I striped Roby (my Roomba) apart and could not get the motor or gear box to work, upon careful dissection i found the plastic gears where jammed, I removed the motor and tested it separately with a 6V battery and it worked I then carefully cleaned up the burred edges to the plastic sprockets and whamo it worked.

Roby just cleaned for an hour and the brushes are spinning perfectly.

THANK YOU FOR THIS FORUM & all the info....

I did mess around with using some metal sockets from Spacely Sprokects Inc but no luck, Thanks George Jetson for the idea.

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Postby wsngmartin » March 29th, 2008, 6:04 pm

oztambo
great job. sorry 'bout your knee, a bit of a silver lining here though.
it is a nice feeling resuscitating a bot isn't it.
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Re: brush motor

Postby andre402 » January 14th, 2010, 9:06 am

Terminator2 wrote:It wont start unless i turn it around with my hand. Then it starts moving. Im not sure if its moving with full performance, but it seems to work ok when it has started to move.

Gordon wrote:that behavior generally means that one out five armature coils in the brush-motor is no longer functioning.

I have the exact problem with my roomba brush motor: whenever I help the motor with hand, it starts running, otherwise it's just stalled. I guess I can manage to open up the motor and fix any coil connections but since it's my first time, I know nothing about it. I would appreciate if anyone could help me with locating and fixing my coil break. :help: Thanks in advance. :wink:
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Re: brush motor

Postby mfortuna » January 14th, 2010, 9:51 am

At this point I would just get a new motor. Opening it up and trying to fix a coil break is a tedious job and most likely the time and effort won't be worth it. The other parts of the motor such as the brushes, bushings, and commutator have a limited lifespan.
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Re: brush motor

Postby Gordon » January 14th, 2010, 12:45 pm

andre402 wrote:... I guess I can manage to open up the motor and fix any coil connections but since it's my first time, I know nothing about it. I would appreciate if anyone could help me with locating and fixing my coil break. ...
If, at all possible, first follow mfortuna's advice, but, if you reside in some remote place to which few vendors in the world will ship articles to you, or you are clinically insane -- as I am -- you may get some hints on how to go about getting inside a 4XXX-Roomba's Mabuchi brush-motor in a manner which, later, permits re-assembly and proper operation, by reviewing this post:
viewtopic.php?p=69452#p69452
... as well as others in the same thread (a 5XX-Roomba thread).

With motor-end-bell removed, the armature windings can be inspected, and if you see that none have their insulation charred, you will probably find one or two coil breaks right next to where wires were crimped under a commutator-bar's tab. The break will not be visible to an unaided eye, so you may have to pull-test wires going under each crimp-tab to find the break. Very little force is needed for the pull-tests. Be sure to not loose track of which broken end belongs to which comm-bar!
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Re: brush motor

Postby andre402 » January 14th, 2010, 1:51 pm

Gordon wrote:If, at all possible, first follow mfortuna's advice, but, if you reside in some remote place to which few vendors in the world will ship articles to you, or you are clinically insane -- as I am -- you may get some hints on how to go about getting inside a 4XXX-Roomba's Mabuchi brush-motor...

Sure, I could order a new motor from eBay but it's a boring option. So I got the motor open and by touching one of the wires it broke! Thanks, Gordon - I thought I made it brake it but it seems that this is the wire to repair. I'll give it a try and let you know how it went.
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Re: brush motor

Postby Gordon » January 14th, 2010, 2:42 pm

andre402 wrote:... So I got the motor open and by touching one of the wires it broke! ...
Good progress, but make certain two wires did not break:
two-wires_brokeClsUp.jpg
two-wires_brokeClsUp.jpg (102.8 KiB) Viewed 4386 times

When you get the wire ends solder to the comm bar, like this:
CB-1_termSoldered.jpg

...it would be prudent to spot-bond every wire termination with epoxy dots, as seen here:
CB-1_areaBonded.jpg

Even wire loops that can vibrate should be spot bonded, using the least amount of epoxy possible.
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Re: brush motor

Postby andre402 » January 15th, 2010, 3:09 pm

Gordon wrote:When you get the wire ends solder to the comm bar...

Thanks for the help, Gordon! I found three loose wires, soldered them all (most difficult soldering ever) and after reassembling the motor it runs fine on a 9v battery.
That's all for the good news. The motor still doesn't work in roomba (not in cleaning or diagnostic mode) and motor connector pins only show 0.6 volts (fully charged battery). Motor resistance measures 5.3 to 8.3 ohms.
I think I saw a thread in this forum about motor powering circuit problems, I'll go and check it out.
It's amazing what a havoc can a bit too deep carpet cause to a fully functioning 4xx roomba (melted gearbox, broken motor, faulty power circuit).
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