Roomba vs Botvac Review Photos 01/28/15

[DogHairCleanUp]

COSTCO.COM OUT OF STOCK. KEEP CHECKING FOR AVAILABILITY. COSTCO'S E-MAIL RESPONSE ABOUT SALE $289 AT ROBOTIC REVIEWS CHAT. http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18453 Neato Botvac 65 with the combo brush is on SALE at COSTCO for $289 4/1/2015 - 4/30/2015.

I replaced the Botvac all metal (shieled) bearing with metal and rubber (sealed) bearing to increase the reliability. Search Botvac bearing for explanation. Some units come with sealed and some with shielded.
The bearing is available on this web site from member Vic7767 for $6..... Robot-doc.com click on Botvac.
The transaction was very smooth.

I am not affiliated with anybody. I was just comparing the Roomba 655 and the Botvac 65 (with the combo brush) sold exclusively at Costco. The regular price for both units is the same. I couldn't decide after much online research. Real life application sealed the deal.

The household consists of 2 adults, 1 dog and 1 parrott. We do not wear shoes in the house.

There are photos of 12 runs of my approx. 18' x 26' den burber carpet where a medium 45 lb lab mix dog spends most of her time. The numbers indicate the order the runs occurred alternating the Roomba and Botvac. My dog was rarely brushed except for when she got a bath every 2 weeks. She didn't look like she was shedding very much. We also have a medium parrott that lives next to it. He gives off dander and down. It is the central traffic area for the whole house. It attaches to the garage, kitchen, upstairs bedrooms, downstairs basement, kitchen and foyer. The carpet was vacuumed with an upright vacuum on the highest sensitivity dirt alert setting. The carpet looked clean. The Roomba was run first and then the Botvac picked up what the Roomba had left and so on. I alternated them. Here are photos of the results on the burber carpet they came from. The numbers indicate the order in which it was vacuumed.

2 photos are of my living room. It's rarely used or vacuumed. It is short construction grade short carpet as shown in the photos. The dog hair drifted or was tracked into there. The Roomba didn't pick up the bird down after 4 direct passes. The Botvac got it in one pass.

In the upstairs of the house, I have repeatedly alternated the Roomba first then the Botvac. I have never been able to get the results to equal each other. The proportions are about the same as these results pictured. I got a half of a office trash can out of 4 rooms, 3 baths, master closet, landing and hallway. The dog is never allowed in the rooms and rarely goes on the landing and hallway. We had tracked her hair everywhere.

There is a photo of the culprit responsible for this mess.[attachment=6]P1280068.JPG[/attachment][attachment=5]P1280071.JPG[/attachment][attachment=4]P1280072.JPG[/attachment][attachment=3]P1280075.JPG[/attachment][attachment=1]P1280064.JPG[/attachment][attachment=2]P1280066.JPG[/attachment][attachment=0]P2260065.JPG[/attachment]

[mfortuna]

Are you sure you have the right culprit? She looks innocent of any wrongdoing!

[third_deg]

Seems about right. Would love to see compared against 880. Really does make a big difference. Note it is designed to store hair inside the rollers too. So if compare an 880 remember to remove hair from the roller cores when comparing.

[DogHairCleanUp]

The Roomba 880 cost too much. I have read that it is a more fair comparison to the Botvac 65, but the Roomba 880 is very expensive. At Costco, the regular price on the Roomba 655 Pet (in store) and Botvac 65 Pet with the combo brush (Costco online) is $349. I got the cheapest thing that met my needs. It's not an investment for me. As you can see in the pictures, the Botvac fit my needs better. I got a Botvac 65 on sale for $299 + sales tax about $20 + Free shipping = $320 in12/2014. It is on sale for $289 04/01/2015 - 04/30/2015.
A single ply of 3 trimmed sheets of toilet tissue over the filter works great for emptying the dirt bins. It saves the filter which can be beaten, vacuumed or (last case scenario) rinsed if it gets dirty. I have only used one filter and only beat it after 5-10 runs. That is a big savings. Botvac....I took off the side brush for my kitchen hardwood floors because I was afraid it would throw dirt under my fridge. I will get wood molding to take care of that issue. It would still have enough ventilation. The Botvac even works on my 3x11 stair landing with a Queen Anne planter and a dog towel on it. It vacuums the towel without getting stuck.
Since my comparison, I brushed my dog and got nothing. Now, I use a Furminator (which can be bought on the internet much cheaper) to loosen it and brush more often. I only do it in the basement or outside. Also, she rolls on my dormant Bermuda grass and gets covered with it. The Botvac picks it up.
Now, I need to get the sharp beaked bird to agree to a daily bath for the dander and down. It looks like a cloud of dust when he shakes. Also, I put indoor/outdoor carpeting on basement stairs and from the stairs to the back door. It's makes a huge door mat. I get the dog to run up and down a few times. We don't wear our shoes inside. The Botvac still fills up it's bin. I should put my dog in a hazmat suit. My house is less dusty and we don't sneeze as much. You wouldn't think a bird can sneeze too. I wish the Botvac had kept the dark color case because the white looks cheap. But, it blends better with the carpet on the docking station.

[frenchie]

The more you run the robot,the cleaner it will get and the less dust you'll pick up everytime.
I used to have to empty the bin every other day for the first month of usage. Now, once a week is enough. I don't have as much dust generating issues as you though...
Enjoy the robot and thanks for the review !!!

[MrManicks]

Very nice review, your robot is definitely doing its job.
I read your posts but didn't see if you prefer the roomba or the botvac and would you say that the price is worth it?

[DogHairCleanUp]

I kept the Botvac. I got 2. I run 1 on each floor at the same time. That way I only have to listen once. Both are doing a good job. Except, I have had some trouble with 1 beeping and saying to put the dust bin back in. This has been reported as a common error of the earlier models and Botvac should replace the unit. One not following the path well. The path one seemed to heal itself. But I could return it under the warranty too if that continues. I may do it now anyway. I turned the beeping one off and put in the garage for a week. I was planning to call Neato. When I charged it, it ran fine and didn't beep mindlessly. I am still going to call Neato to get a new one under the warranty. The Botvacs still pick up a lot of trash. Even though, the Roomba is supposed to be more reliable and it looks prettier I couldn't justify getting it. What good is it if it doesn't even go over the path? The Roomba is suppose to go over the same area until it is clean. It didn't matter if it didn't go over another area at all. Some people say it will get it the next time around. I didn't want to count on it. It was too random for me. If the Roomba was my only choice, I wouldn't have gotten one. Of course, if I hadn't done the comparison, I wouldn't have known better. It's too bad they can't make a robot vac that is reliable, pretty and does a good job for $350. I would make the same choice. I got mine for $299 on sale at Costco 12/2014. They are on sale again for $289 at Costco 4/1/2015-4/30/2015.... I am not affiliated with anybody...The American Express card issued by Costco doubles the warranty for as long as you have the card. However, there has been a news report that Costco may contract with another credit card. I have not confirmed this report. If that is true, I don't know how that would affect the American Express extended warranty since we would not have caused the cancellation. I contacted American Express 12/2014 because I was thinking about cancelling my membership. The AmX card is part of the Costco deal and if you cancel Costco you lose the AmX. Costco has such a good reputation for customer service, I find it hard to believe that they would let us lose our extended warranty benefit. Costco has a generous return policy. I returned the Roomba because it wasn't the best choice for my application. The Roomba never caught up with the amount of trash, dust and dander that the Botvac picked up. I think the Botvac combination brush (and reportedly stronger vacuum power) made a big difference. I am not a technical person. From what I have read on this website, all the Botvacs are the same. They are different in color and the items that come with them. Also, the regular and hepa filters are interchangeable. The Botvac 65 is the package deal exclusive to Costco. My understanding is that the combination brush is usually purchased as an upgrade at other retailers.
Please confirm the facts for yourself. I may not be correct.
I replaced the Botvac bearing to increase the reliability. The bearing is available on this web site from member Vic7767 for $6..... Robot-doc.com click on Botvac.
The transaction was very smooth.
Also, the Botvac returned to the charger and then continued where it left off. When the Roomba's battery ran low, it also returned to the charger. However, I couldn't tell if it was finished or if it didn't return to an unfinished area and I couldn't figure out where to put it. My furniture get less dusty now.
They are cheaper than a maid. Even, if they only last to the end of the warranty, it is worth it to me. I hate to clean house. My spouse was suppose to vacuum and they never did without my constant insistence. Then, it was once a month if I was lucky. The Botvac is much more reliable than my spouse. No stressing out and I just push a button. Now, if I could find a robot the unload the dishwasher and take out the trash with just the push of a button and no drama induced stress......

[DogHairCleanUp]

I have the Botvac. It has a very large trash bin. But I still clean it out every time. The filter is hard to clean. However, it is easy with this trick. I use the single ply toilet paper as a pre-filter. Three sheets wide of single ply toilet paper. It makes the filter a breeze to clean and it saves money on the filters. I have used it for 3 months almost everyday. I beat the filter against the side of the trash can sometimes to remove any dust. It still looks new. It could be vacuumed or washed if it gets bad in the future.
I also take the brush out and clean the hair from around the ends of the brush and bearing.

Neato product replacement versus Costco return
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 20&t=18277

Will Botvac 85 clean multiple rooms all on its own?
(Same as Botvac 65 sold at Costco with different accessory package)
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 20&t=18349

Roomba vs Botvac Review Photos 01/28/15
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 10&t=18315

Neato Botvac vs XV reliability. How long will it last?
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 10&t=18465

Botvac Original Factory Sealed Bearing Fail Rare?
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 20&t=18476

Roomba, Botvac, etc - all posts on this website search
Go to upper right corner of this page. Type subject in the box. Click on search.
.

[DogHairCleanUp]

Yes, it was definitely worth it. I bought 2 Botvacs. One for each 1,600 square foot floor. They are a combination of hardwood, tile, berber and low pile carpet. That way I can run them at the same time and only listen to them once. Also, I don't have to carry it up and down the stairs since there is only one charging base per unit. They clean every room and return to the charging base automatically. These are my first robot vacuums. I will never be without one again. It has improved my carpet cleanliness, reduced dust on my furniture, and we can breath better and not sneeze (even the bird). I steam clean twice a year and it picks up some dog hair. Who know I was steam cleaning dog hair? The Botvacs have improved harmony in our household because I don't constantly request my spouse to vacuum. Now, all I have to do is press a button. Of course, my spouse brought them to my attention...... Score one for the spouse.

[razorseal]

Yes, it was definitely worth it. I bought 2 Botvacs. One for each 1,600 square foot floor. They are a combination of hardwood, tile, berber and low pile carpet. That way I can run them at the same time and only listen to them once. Also, I don't have to carry it up and down the stairs since there is only one charging base per unit. They clean every room and return to the charging base automatically. These are my first robot vacuums. I will never be without one again. It has improved my carpet cleanliness, reduced dust on my furniture, and we can breath better and not sneeze (even the bird). I steam clean twice a year and it picks up some dog hair. Who know I was steam cleaning dog hair? The Botvacs have improved harmony in our household because I don't constantly request my spouse to vacuum. Now, all I have to do is press a button. Of course, my spouse brought them to my attention...... Score one for the spouse.

Working great here too. I just can't believe how much that bin fills up though. it's pretty much a requirement to empty it every time it's used. with the combo brush on our floors (95% carpet) you should clean it almost every time. Might go back to the blade since it requires less cleaning and both fill up the bin regardless lol.

I'm very happy I got a robot vacuum. We don't vacuum often, so this will be nice. Just have to keep it maintained well. I have to find some cheap TP to do what you did with the filter,

I don't think I'll be without one now. I wish it can open and close doors too lol. I will surely get a braava when we have bit more wood floors too (new place maybe?)

[jdong]

I've actually found with the high end robots like the BotVac and the Roomba 880, it has virtually replaced all my manual vacuuming. After about 2 months with the Neato BotVac from Costco, I decided to bust out my $400 Dyson Animal series full size vacuum, but it actually didn't pick up much of anything. It picked up about the same amount of dust as a typical daily robot run, maybe a tad more than that.

So the claim that robots are only surface / light cleaners may no longer be true these days with the higher end bots. The combination of good brush design and improvements to the vacuum / brush motors really does seem to make a difference.

[DogHairCleanUp]

Good to know. I haven't used my upright vacuum since these pictures were taken. It obviously didn't do any good. So, I haven't bothered. The edges have track impressions on the carpet from the wheels. So would a regular vacuum, but they would not be a consistent and noticeable. I know that the corners and edges will eventually need the touch of an upright. I run the Botvacs every couple of days (except for the stair landing). I have one for each floor. Each dirt bin usually looks like the Botvac pictures in the group of 4 living room pictures or sometimes a bin is almost full if I go for 3 days. I clean them out each time anyway. I wonder how they would work at the beach? Have you used both the Botvac and the Roomba 880?

[jdong]

Have you used both the Botvac and the Roomba 880?

Yep! I've owned the Roomba for a bit over a week but I've had the Costco BotVac for a few months already. Before that I had a Costco Roomba 595.

I pretty comprehensively compared the BotVac with the 880 here: http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 38#p130134

I like both of them. If money isn't a concern IMO the Roomba 880 is superior. But the Costco BotVac model hits a way better price:performance point that I think makes more sense financially speaking.

[DogHairCleanUp]

I had already read your comparison and it was excellent. I consider you an expert and myself a non-technical consumer. The more I use the Botvac the more I learn. Everything I write is my opinion and what I have gleaned from other posts. I always encourage readers to check out the facts for themselves. I may be wrong.

I thought the Roomba 655 was a pain and you see how much debris it missed. Two Botvacs for less than the price of one equal or inferior (IMO) Roomba 655 was a better deal for me. The Dyson 360 looks like a good marriage of the Botvac and the Roomba. I consider the Botvac to be a real vacuum cleaner and not a carpet sweeper. There must have been a good reason why the Dyson 360 demo video compared itself to what appeared to be a Roomba rather than a Botvac. But the Dyson price is prohibitive. All the robot vacs have pros, cons and bugs. It just made sense to get the cheapest one for my application. The cleaning needs and a 1,600 sq foot floor was just too much for the Roomba 655. I think for small rooms it would do fine once most of the dog hair is removed. At least, until shedding season. It did good on my stair landing.

INNOVATION... It isn't an investment. Technology and prices change too fast. It's more like a computer or a car than a house. For example: I paid $2,500 for my first cell phone. I bought it directly from Motorola because it was not available from retailers and got a service contract with them for $0.25-$0.50/minute because long distance rates applied. Enormous ship to shore rates applied when I was at the beach because they couldn't tell the difference. The competition wasn't there for hand size flip phones. Years later, other companies were giving them away with cheap service contracts. Even with the robots, if I stay a generation or two behind, it gives them more time to work out bugs and drop the price. After all, it was the next hot thing just a couple of years ago.

Manufacturers must have planned product obsolesence to stay in business. There always has to be just enough of the next best thing to beat the competition's current marketing scheme without giving away all the cookies at once. It isn't that they are not aware of problems unless they ignore consumers or don't test them under real world conditions. They have the ability to fix most problems before they hit the market. But, how else could they have a next new thing to market or save $1 on a ball bearing. IMO, Roomba didn't have real competition until Neato robots gave them a kick start. Then, the Botvac took it to another level. If it's broke and people are still buying it, why invest research and development money that will cut into profits?

It really says something to me when it is considered more fair to compare the Roomba 880 at $700 (rather than the Roomba 655 for $350) to a Botvac 65/85 for $300-$350. It will be interesting to observe the effects of Dyson entering the market. It didn't take long for other upright vacuums to adopt Dyson's innovations and drop prices. More expensive, isn't always better. Just check Consumer Reports magazine. Example: IBM and COMPAQ use to dominate the personal computer market and have proprietary parts. When the compatibles (most of the brands you know today) hit the market, people didn't trust them and still paid premium prices for the name brands. Once it caught on, it had a snowball effect. Some manufactures spend more money on reverse engineering than research and development. Other companies improve existing products because it's less expensive than reinventing the wheel and the market is established.

BOTVAC and TORN BERBER CARPET... My berber has torn pile because my dog ate it. The Botvac is making it worse. I need to glue it down.

PET ACCIDENTS and ROBOT VACUUMS.... This brings me to another robot vacuum/pet issue. If you are away and your pet has an accident, the robot can spread it around. Wouldn't it be lovely to come home to vomit or feces everywhere? So, it may be better to crate or isolate the pet to another area (especially puppies) if you aren't home to monitor it. I don't. There are some unpredictable rare events that come with pets.
Can you imagine having to clean "special debris" out a Botvac or Roomba?

BOTVAC PEOPLE / PET NAVAGATION WALLS?.... If we walk close to the Botvac it may sense us as a wall and adjust its path accordingly. I wonder if the Dyson does the same thing. Wouldn't it be inherit to laser technology?

[jdong]

Yeah, I've personally never been a fan of Roomba's pricing model, where the models that actually highlight Roomba's strengths are $600+ (frankly, the 780 and 880), while anything that hits a lower price point just gets creamed by Neato on all fronts. Roomba really needs to get their prices down to be competitive. If you look at most BotVac's, they line up with the Roomba 600 series price point. And if you look at Costco's botvac on sale, that's even cheaper than the Woot deals on 600 and 500 series Roombas.

If you have a 500/600 series, the AeroVac CHM is far inferior to the Neato (even the XV-11), and it gets stuck on just about as many things as a Neato if not more! Plus, without lighthouses, if you have more than a ~600 sq ft area, there's almost zero chance that it even goes into all of your living spaces in one cleaning, which frustrates owners.

But comparing high end to high end, now that it's almost a week after my original review, IMO the biggest difference between the 880 and BotVac is that the 880 seems far superior at obstacle avoidance. And I think that matters a lot because I almost always run my bots unattended before leaving for work, and it's 8-10hrs later when I come home and the noise of running them while I'm at home is not terribly practical. A bot that snagged to its premature death is not acceptable.

Just to give you a comparison, I've done a few controlled tests side by side, and here's the results:


OBSTACLES THAT KILL ROOMBA BUT NOT NEATO:

- Shutting doors. Roomba's wall hugging mode loves to close doors. I've never seen the Neato do that.

OBSTACLES THAT KILL NEATO (more) BUT NOT ROOMBA:
- Socks. This was a huge disappointment. Closing the door on Neato in a carpeted room with sock causes it to die nearly 100% of the time upon first encounter. It gets stuck in the brush assembly, and the Neato is incapable of spitting it back out for some reason.
- Thinner chairs. The Neato's D shape really hurts it here. It will often attempt to spin around but the D shaped front end gets caught on something. Roomba's circular shape means it can spin around forever and never change its dimensions.
- Phone charger cables. This one really surprised me. I'm used to old Roombas and all Neato's eating phone cords and damaging them / dying on them. I thought that was a fact of life. But the Roomba 880's antitangle capabilities are absolutely phenomenal! I was able to have it clean a closet with an iPhone cord on the ground, and watched it avoid getting stuck on the cord. As soon as it runs over the cord, the blue anti-tangle light comes on, and it's as if it just drives over it. Once it actually picked it up, and the anti-tangle light stayed on, rollers turned off, and it drove around passively for a bit of time before spitting it out again. If you have kids / family who are bad about leaving expensive charging cables on the ground, Roomba might save you here.
- Bed skirts. I have a bed skirt that's black on the outside and white on the inside. Hilariously, once in a while the Neato drive underneath it and then confines itself to underneath the bed for the rest of the cleaning cycle.
- Overhead pinch traps.These are kind of well known, but I've unfortunately got both a coffee table and a TV stand that are just the right height to get Neato wedged.

And the list kind of goes on. With that said, the Roomba is not impervious either to getting stuck on obstacles. It just is far less frequent. The infamous Poang chair still gives the Roomba some trouble, though it's an instant kill of Neato every time. Roomba can usually climb off of it after a few tries, though sometimes it gets stuck at the right angle and loses traction. Roomba also can die on loose rugs and high-pile carpets. It usually makes no attempt to clean them / damage them though -- it immediately registers as a tangle.

[DogHairCleanUp]

I find them interesting little guys with their own personalities.

[jdong]

For sure! They are both fun and useful, and you can't go wrong with either. As customers, competition and choice is always a good thing!

[DogHairCleanUp]

UPDATE BY ORIGINAL POSTER: I have 2 Neato Botvacs 65. I wrote this original review. One of them has a problem with the bin staying put and it has not been useable for several months (lasted 3 months whith almost daily use on 1200 sq ft). I have read that this is a common problem. I just haven't called customer service yet. If they won't fix it, I will just tape it in to see if that works. I will go ahead and try taping the bin in place now and report back. The sealed wheel bearing black seals on each side has disintegrated. I turned it over and it did the same thing to the other side. One that I bought independently from another source to replace one shielded bearing did the same thing so this may not be isolated to just Neato Botvac. It is not safe to use because it could destroy part of the Botvac. The Botvacs got stuck more than the Roomba 655 and the Neato Botvacs 65 were not able to clear high thresholds as well. Sometimes, when the Botvac get stuck and I had to clear its path, it got confused. I had to take it back to the charging station, stop the cleaning and start over again. I love that it goes back to the charging station automatically and then resumes when fully charged. It will clean a whole floor. The Roomba 655 didn't. I never expected the Botvac to last as long as the Roomba but there was a large price difference (because I have been told that it is not fair to compare the Botvac 65 with the Roomba 655 because the Botvac65 ($299-$349) cleans more at the level as the Roomba 880 ($800) The Botvac performed better for dog hair and the bin was much larger. I haven't tried the Roomba 880 because it is too expensive. I may get an Iclebo Arte ($349 regular price) from Costco to test. Costco no longer sells the Botvac. When I bought the Botvac, I think they also sold the Roombo and the Iclebo. I wrote a full review with demonstration pictures. See on internet: Robotreviews.com, Robot Chat, Robotic Reviews, Roomba vs Botvac Review Photos 1/28/15. I don't mind a little babysitting the Botvac 65 for better cleaning at a good price. It picks up tons of dog hair, bird down and bird dander. The Roomba 655 wouldn't pick up bird down. I would buy it again.

[glnc222]

The new Botvac-D 2015 has a revised brush mounting with a more durable sealed bushing instead of the ball bearing subject to failure. http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 20&t=18667
The new brush can also be used in the original Botvac by removing a small plastic shroud piece in the case
http://www.roboter-forum.com/showthread ... 15-!/page6
The old brushes will still work as well. It appears very hard to remove the new end plug; heating is needed, leaving in the sun or under an incandescent lamp etc. (Then the mounting could be moved to different brushes.)
Eventually the new brush will be available separately (by which time the unit may be out of warranty anyway...).

[DogHairCleanUp]

I did the review on 01/28/15. I had 2 Botvacs. I had problems with the dirt bin on one and set it in the garage for months because it wouldn't stop beeping and the combo-brush plastic had started to split. The second one started the same thing recently. I called Neato. Sent both of them back and I received new ones within about 10 days. New charger and everything just like when I purchased them. I am charging them up for the first time. Happy with customer service. Unhappy it didn't hold up better. I wasn't surprised it had this problem. Glad it happened before the warranty ran out. One was a gift and the other I purchased from Costco December 2014.
Save your receipts.....
Both came with sealed bearings (black ring inside). The combo-brushes were identical to the ones I had returned.
I had slowed down using them to about twice a week.