New Neato XV-15 - impressions

[draga]

Hello everybody, after one year with my Roomba, I've decided to get a Neato XV-15.
I received it yesterday and have already performed some tests.

Its SLAM capabilities are amazing and it is perfectly able to clean my house in a very short time. Compared to Roomba, I can now program it and be sure it will clean any part of the house (one floor at a time, of course). It is also able to climb over some obstacles that Roomba could not pass. Roomba uses to get stuck on those while the Neato, after some fighting, is able to free itself (and avoid going back there). No more need to remove those before cleaning.

So, everything seems perfect...BUT... there's something I have noticed: Roomba cleans quite better than the XV-15. Let's be clear: they're different. Neato gets more dust but Roomba is able to get more debris. For my first test, I've launched Roomba and let it finish a room. Then fired up the Neato, and while no big debris were collected at all (so Roomba had done a great job), the bin was full of small dust. Impressive.
I've put some breadcrumbs on the floor (as I used to do to test Roomba) and, after its tour, some of them were just some centimetres away from their original position. It seems that the Neato turned in that point and those crumbs could not be collected. Same situation with some other debris on a carpet.
Roomba gets all of them, at the end of its cleaning cycle.
So I decided to do another test: since my Roomba needs to be positioned in every room (as I do not have lighthouses), the total cleaning time of the lower floor is more or less 95/100 mins. Neato just needs 30/35 mins. So I tried to restart the Neato cleaning cycle as soon as finished the first one. No need to say, everything was clear as with Roomba (more or less...corners....)

So I wrote Neato Robotics and suggested a small option, a multipass one. It's easy to implement, just one variable and one menu entry (and an "if" at the end of the cleaning cycle). If the user wants multipass, instead of going back to the docking base, the Neato could restart the cleaning process from the beginning.

I would not mind having the Neato running in my house for 70 mins instead of 35, if the result is having it completely clean. That would be less than the Roomba, more "automatic" and surely effective.

The UK C.S. replied it seems interesting and they passed the suggestion over to the R&D.

What do you think about it, as you're surely more experienced than me with this jewel?

[Fraggboy]

draga,

Welcome to RobotReviews!!

The randomness navigation of the Roomba allows it to run over the same carpet many times, thus pulling out more dust-debris from the carpet. I doubt Neato can implement a multiple pass system due to the power requirement. The reason why Neato can use a higher powered vacuum is due to how it navigates the home. It doesn't allow multiple passes, so the extra power can be used on the vacuum motor. The Roomba uses multiple pass to clean an area effectively.

Since the Neato only allows 1 schedule time/day, you could clean the dust bin and manually start it again. I guess they could implement a timer like the Karcher RC3000 has. Schedule a time to start, and run for x amount of time. If needed, go back to the base to charge. But, there would need human intervention to empty the dust bin.

[draga]

draga,

Welcome to RobotReviews!!

Thank you!

The randomness navigation of the Roomba allows it to run over the same carpet many times, thus pulling out more dust-debris from the carpet. I doubt Neato can implement a multiple pass system due to the power requirement. The reason why Neato can use a higher powered vacuum is due to how it navigates the home. It doesn't allow multiple passes, so the extra power can be used on the vacuum motor. The Roomba uses multiple pass to clean an area effectively.

I know. But actually my Neato can clean my ground floor using less than half battery (yes, not a large house) so it could still re-start and go. Or, if needed, it can recharge and resume.
I know, this would double the battery requirements, but it's able to recharge and resume so I don't think it could be a big issue

Since the Neato only allows 1 schedule time/day, you could clean the dust bin and manually start it again. I guess they could implement a timer like the Karcher RC3000 has. Schedule a time to start, and run for x amount of time. If needed, go back to the base to charge. But, there would need human intervention to empty the dust bin.

Never tried the Karcher, but sounds reasonable.

[Fraggboy]

I could see the "Run for x minutes after starting" being added to the firmware very easy. The only drawback would be that one would have to be around to check/empty the dustbin while it's charging.

At least CS forwarded it over to R&D to have a look at it.

[draga]

Yes, I hope they'll really have a look at it.
Today, while Neato was cleaning, I badly stopped its path back to the dock. I didn't notice it at all, but when it finished cleaning the floor, it got in front of the new object, turned around a couple of times, "thought" for some seconds, turned around and successfully found the way back to the dock doing a completely different (more complicate, but the only one possible) path.
Amazing. No other words to describe it.

[regnep]

Hi draga, it's impressive how well it navigates. Your multi runs per day scheduling idea sound like a good option. Like you wrote, sometimes it would be a good thing to have the house cleaned thoroughly.

Does anyone know if there is an option to turn of all the programmed days at once or do I have to turn them of one by one like on the roomba? If not then this could also be a suggested feature. Nice if I leave in a hurry for a long vacation.

[draga]

Does anyone know if there is an option to turn of all the programmed days at once or do I have to turn them of one by one like on the roomba? If not then this could also be a suggested feature. Nice if I leave in a hurry for a long vacation.

In my Neato (fw 2.6), there's an option to completely disable schedule. So you shouldn't unset the days, but just set it as "scheduling disabled" and it will stop any scheduled run.

[sageman]

my 2.4 has that (i think they all do)

basically its a schedule on/off thingy in the scheduling menu

[JEfromCanada]

So I wrote Neato Robotics and suggested a small option, a multipass one. It's easy to implement, just one variable and one menu entry (and an "if" at the end of the cleaning cycle). If the user wants multipass, instead of going back to the docking base, the Neato could restart the cleaning process from the beginning.

What do you think about it, as you're surely more experienced than me with this jewel?

There is only one flaw, as I see it, with a true "multi-pass" solution.

Neato, as far as I can tell, does a pretty consistent job mapping its surroundings. So, if it currently misses some debris because that dirt is on the edge of its "zone", chances are on the next pass, the zone will end in the same place and the debris will get missed again.

Also, since Neato doesn't have a brush, I find that my pet hair actually gets FURTHER EMBEDDED into the carpet each time Neato runs, because the beater bar tends to push the hair more firmly into the carpet, rather than pull it out.

[draga]

Neato, as far as I can tell, does a pretty consistent job mapping its surroundings. So, if it currently misses some debris because that dirt is on the edge of its "zone", chances are on the next pass, the zone will end in the same place and the debris will get missed again.

In my short experience, I've noticed that the mapping changes every time it runs. Not much, but it doesn't do the same path every time. Sometimes it divides my living room in two zones, sometimes it doesn't. I don't know if it's a sort of "random" parameter or if it's just a small difference in the environment, but actually it does.

Also, since Neato doesn't have a brush, I find that my pet hair actually gets FURTHER EMBEDDED into the carpet each time Neato runs, because the beater bar tends to push the hair more firmly into the carpet, rather than pull it out.

Oh, this is not nice. I've not animals, so I've never experienced that.

[Las Vegas]

I dont believe its just single vs. multiple pass that makes all the difference its multiple passes from multiple directions.

I have run my neato then my roomba over the same area and the neato ended up full of fine particles just as your neato did. In fact I have vacuumed the room with my Sebo then my roomba and there is always something in the bin. Dust happens!

[draga]

Sure
Anyway, after some days of scheduled runs, I have the feeling that the house is cleaner. I used my Roomba almost every day, too, but Neato seem to get more dust.
Surely, dust happens. Anyway, I'm very proud of my little bot. I didn't find a name, yet
Maybe "Nito", which was the name of my hamster (years ago). Seems appropriate, he was always running on the floor catching dust and eating anything he could find.

[eqwalker]

I believe the multiple pass would be a great option and perfectly doable. It could start the second run when it finished the first time back at the dock. Even if the battery was low it would just stop and go back to the dock to charge and pick right up where it left off to complete the mission. Mine does my house on two charges and does it well so I wouldn't need the feature but it would be nice for those that feel they need it. I no longer use the Roombas (gave them all away... oh, I did keep one for sentimental value) but still use my Dirt Dog in the garage and the Scooba. Waiting on Neato to come out with a mop version like the Scooba. Maybe Neato will look at adding the multiple pass idea.

[piokrza]

I believe the multiple pass would be a great option and perfectly doable. It could start the second run when it finished the first time back at the dock. Even if the battery was low it would just stop and go back to the dock to charge and pick right up where it left off to complete the mission. Mine does my house on two charges and does it well so I wouldn't need the feature but it would be nice for those that feel they need it.

When I owned my XV-11 I did that every time I put him on a run. Two time run is the minimum, to get the best results during every week cleaning.

[draga]

When I owned my XV-11 I did that every time I put him on a run. Two time run is the minimum, to get the best results during every week cleaning.

I think that one run is ok if you use it daily. If not, you need two runs.
Just for curiosity's sake, which robot are you using now?

[holmes4]

The biggest difference for me between Roomba and Neato is that the Roomba could cover only about a third of the house before heading back to the dock. The Neato usually manages to do the whole house on one charge and will go back to finish if it doesn't. The Neat gets to places the Roomba, with its drunkard's walk, never did.

I find that the Neato's dustbin is full after a run. It is doing a good job. Yeah, I'd like a brush to get the hair out of the rugs.

[Wing Nut]

I doubt Neato can implement a multiple pass system due to the power requirement. The reason why Neato can use a higher powered vacuum is due to how it navigates the home. It doesn't allow multiple passes, so the extra power can be used on the vacuum motor.

Since the Neato happily handles multiple mid-task recharges, automatically enabling it to repeat the same job isn't outside its battery's capability. I can manually get it to start all over again when it completes a run, so a firmware tweak could surely do the same, if necessary after a recharge?

I'm cleaning up after 30 guests came for a BBQ dinner and I'd really like it to do double duty on the carpet downstairs. In fact, I'm about to send it out again since I'm sure there's more dirt to be found even if I can't see any anymore. Emptying the bin on a double run is a concern for some in larger single level homes, but simply limiting Neato to the dirtiest room(s) is one solution. My most used area usually generates a less than half load normally, so it'd easily handle 2 - 3 consecutive runs assuming less is collected each time.

Actually this double run option is similar in effect to an option I suggested elsewhere for an LCD pre-set for a Fast, Normal or a Thorough vacuum. 'Fast' for those occasions when someone is about to drop in with little warning and your floor needs a quick vacuum - it travels faster and doesn't fuss about with the edges. 'Thorough' would increase the normal overlap to something like 3/4 width. being fussy about corners, etc., taking ages, but almost covering each bit of floor twice.

[mfortuna]

When is your next BBQ? I need an excuse to break in my passport

[Wing Nut]

February, and only 10 guests next time

Neato is just catching its breath after a double run - floor's clean and bin full. Up stairs to do next!

[draga]

February, and only 10 guests next time

Ok, so on February we'll all come to you for a BBQ, so we'll all look at how your Neato will clean.
Ahahah I can see that...20 people staring at a robot, doing its job