Robo-Mowers Questions

[bkrownd]

I've been using Neato vacuums for a few years now, enjoying their Lidar navigation. I occasionally get interested in a robot mower, since where I live it's often raining when I have time available to mow the yard, so I can't mow as regularly as I'd like. I use an electric mower, so rain is a no-go for mowing. I started looking into robotic mowers again last night and it looks like all the mowers I saw are still random pattern Roomba-style robots? It seems like random pattern would be very inefficient for my yard which is a narrow strip surrounding the building, between 4-10 feet wide and a couple hundred feet around. That would be a lot of stopping and starting and probably result in very poor total coverage from a random pattern. Ideally a mower would do my yard in straight lines, in a "raster" pattern. Does anybody know if there are mowers available or in development that try to mow in an organized raster pattern, even if it's finding the boundaries just by perimeter wire and bumping the building? Also, does the level of waterproofness vary a lot between the brands, or is it not really an issue? I live in the rainiest city in the US, so rain (often heavy) is just a thing we always have to work around.

[glnc222]

I doubt there are any mowers with "systematic" or raster navigation patterns because of some engineering considerations where they differ from interior floor cleaners with different environments.
[correction] Bosch advertises systematic raster navigation; see later post
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewto ... 04#p157604
Vacuums with either lidar or camera guidance use the mapping to fix on distant targets to drive toward, but the short distance motion is regulated by monitoring the wheel rotation on solid surfaces where that works, compared to the rough terrain outdoors. They also have plenty of detection targets in walls and ceiling features they can use -- and fail in large open spaces beyond reach of the distance sensors. It is harder outdoors to detect reference points for navigation. Husqvarna advertises GPS navigation but apparently only to define the boundary (others require guide wire installation). So all these mowers work by detecting the boundary.
Worx Landroid advertises rain sensing so like you, it doesn't go out in the rain.
The random navigation pattern works perfectly well even in narrow paths, seen in some videos of them doing a lawn path. It is a means of covering an area by running long enough to hit every spot. The main advantage of "systematic" patterns in vacuums is shorter run time for the area, more efficient. To work precise positioning is needed to over-lap runs and not leave spots uncovered, hard to achieve on rough ground (anything not perfectly smooth).
Perhaps it is just much more expensive to create raster nav patterns on outdoor terrains even if technically feasible, too much for a practical consumer appliance.

[bkrownd]

Worx Landroid advertises rain sensing so like you, it doesn't go out in the rain.

That might not be what I want. It doesn't need to start when it's raining, but it might be going overboard to abandon mowing if it rains for a minute or two. It rains a LOT here, which is why I have trouble finding time to use my manual mower. The grass is often very wet even when it isn't raining. I want a robot that can safely resist the rain and wet. Since it lives outside it's also going to get wet quite a bit just waiting around.

It doesn't seem like a simple raster within the boundaries should be so hard to do with some creative motion sensors. I'm worried that a random pattern in my narrow strip is going to be really inconsistent coverage, and not get around to the opposite side of the house much. It's also just a waste of energy to turn a lot and go over the same areas repeatedly.

[glnc222]

Water is kind of anathema to electronic devices like this unless specially made for it (like deep sea diving equipment), and probably insufficient demand to justify the cost. You could ask the companies what they say about their mowers in this respect (if sales even knows). Since they run automatically on schedules, one wonders if they require customers just about everywhere to monitor weather. Vacuum robots have been damaged encountering (or making) spills, like with unprotected pet bowls.

[bkrownd]

Vacuums are an indoor design, though. One of the basic design requirements for an autonomous outdoor vehicle like a robot mower has to be reasonable resistance to rain. Rain can happen at any time, and there's no way for the mower to anticipate that. The units I've seen also have their charging stations outside, so they have to anticipate the charging dock area is going to get wet as well. Even with some amount of overhead cover anything outside is going to get blown rain and splash from heavy rain.

[glnc222]

One user guide, Robomow, said nothing about rain. Some web comments on google:
"Robot lawn mowers are designed to operate in all weather conditions. The only exceptions are in very stormy or wet conditions or in sub-zero temperatures. [i.e. not when raining...]"

Bob Vila: "A wet lawn is notoriously difficult to mow. Wet grass blades are slick and tough to slice, creating an uneven shred (at best) rather than the clean-cut you can achieve on a sunny afternoon. Unless your mower’s blades are in peak-condition, newly sharpened, or replaced, it may even take two or three passes over the same patch of wet lawn to get even a fraction of the cut you’d get if the lawn were dry."

[bkrownd]

Yeah a wet mow is certainly not ideal for suburban-style lawns, particularly with traditional mowers that have a large often fairly dull blade. (fortunately the bot mowers use smaller sharper blades)

But my mowing is mostly about keeping the tropical weeds in check and keeping my "grass" from getting crowded out, rather than making it look really nice. (The only grass I've had much success with here is carpetgrass which is not one of the attractive turf grasses.)

I'd be really proud to see my little bot mower working away out there rain or shine.

[glnc222]

In Florida we control weeds with bimonthly herbicide lawn treatments, often with contracted services. For the climate a kind of weed, St. Augustine grass is used which does not grow from seeds, just runners. Zoysia also common does grow from seeds. Only certain weed killers can be used on St. Augustine. They work. Mowing doesn't seem to have much to do with it, except over-mowing gives more room to weeds.

[bkrownd]

I avoid herbicides whenever I can. We have lots of critters living in the yard, and fruit trees we eat from. Most of our neighbors are in the habit of hosing down their lots with roundup all the time, which is nasty.

I tried zoysia as part of a 5 seed mixture for the initial seeding, but it only did well in very small patches and can't keep other things down. (really expensive seed, too) The soil, moisture, and sun levels are very challenging in the newly seeded half. In the other half that had established soil (and mostly less challenging sun levels) the carpetgrass took over very quickly and is very effective at dominating. (also effective at growing out across the driveway and up the walls!) I should have just seeded with carpetgrass from the start, but I had no idea how it would go.

The WORX unit is looking like the best value for my situation, but I'm intrigued by the Ambrogio mowers.

[glnc222]

They don't use RoundUp on lawns here as it kills St. Augustine grass, sort of weed itself. Certain other chemicals work.
Ambrogio interesting in detecting difference between grass and other surfaces, eliminating boundary wires. Much more convenient.
One customer in Virginia wanted a robot to replace having lawn tractor for an acre size lawn. Small lawns not as much work manually.

[glnc222]

Here in citrus grove country folks may have a fruit tree in the yard and they don't use stuff bad for them.

[glnc222]

Aside from the mower being able to run in rain the charging dock outside with A/C Power cord is likely to have warnings about exposure to water and shock hazard, apart from function. Same applies to electric vs gas manual mowers.

[bkrownd]

You couldn't have a robotic lawn mower at all if it wasn't designed to be safe from normal rain and ground moisture. That would make no sense at all.

[glnc222]

I looked at the specs for the Ambrogio at the company website https://www.ambrogiorobot.com/en-us
just at the cheapest Basic model, user manual at https://www.ambrogiorobot.com/images/up ... .3_EN_.pdf
The grass surface detection advertised does not apply, maybe only on the larger delux models (where the boundary wire for an acre would be a ton of wire). It uses a boundary wire but does not need to be buried, just pegged down.

The FAQ section says it can operate in rain, just not emersed or go through puddles, as not sealed, though the cover sheds water (one wonders about any control panel or display on the bot exposed, haven't looked -- possibly enhance with an add-on cover). They also say the charging base needs protection like a roof, and on ground with good drainage.
FAQ statement:
"Can Abrogio Robot work in the rain?
Yes. Ambrogio Robot can cut while it is raining, however, to prevent it from getting too dirty we recommend activating the rain sensors because cutting wet grass may damage the lawn: Ambrogio Robot will return to the recharging base and will wait for the next work cycle. Please see the section in the operating manual entitled “Settings - Programming mode"."

The manual, however, suggests that it works in the rain cleverly by staying out of the rain until it stops and automatically resuming -- it may depend on how heavy a rain is involved, whether puddles occur etc.:
Rain Sensor settings:
"ON: when rain is detected, the robot returns to the charging station. At the end of the charging cycle, the robot resumes its normal operation if the sensor no longer detects rain.
DELAY: when rain is detected, the robot returns to the charging station and stays there for the time set, which can be configured in the next screen when the “Delay" button is pressed.
OFF: the rain sensor is turned off."

Perhaps discuss your case with technical support at the company for their opinion on practicality.

[piokrza]

Bosch Indego is one of systematic robotic mower I know about. In the past Robomow had RL1000 model, but I'm not sure about their current models. Also, delayed iRobot Terra was supposed to work in parallel lines too. Robot mowers are designed to work in rain, Husqvarna mentions about it in nearly all their commercials. However many of robot mowers have ability to detect rain by build-in sensor. Some of them have also ability to connect on-air with external cloud connected with other garden sensors, e.g. Gardena Smart System, so it all know when the lawn needs mowing, irrigation, etc. based on weather and all other conditions.

[glnc222]

Indeed the Bosch mowers tout their systematic navigation, parallel lines, "logicut" feature, faster work with wider intake; see their description
https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/landing ... go-logicut
They also say works in the rain but like others, says grass cuts better when dry.
Appears to ship from Germany worldwide from certain dealers. Smallest model under $1000.
Bosch known in the U.S. for superior luxury kitchen appliances, dishwashers running more quietly etc. Often from specialty dealers, installers instead of big box stores.

There are some low end interior vacuums which appear to do systematic nav without a lidar or camera mapping, perhaps from inertial navigation or what not, so it appears possible.

[bkrownd]

I had not seen the Bosch yet. I'll have to investigate that.

edit: it looks like the Bosch is perhaps not available in the US?

[piokrza]

I have learned that Bosch recommend in their Indego's user's manual not to mow during rain. Also, I know one case when Indego's control panel got flooded by water and malfunction during warranty period occured. So not sure if "open" control panel is good design for robotic mower if they are meant to work and stay under the open sky each season. At least Gardena's and some Husqvarna's models have it under flap for some reason

[glnc222]

Bosch is distributed world wide out of Germany, Spain or the UK. You have to import it into the U.S., though Amazon seems to list some parts for them. Many dealers in the UK.
German sales worldwide, ships from Berlin (English website):
https://www.grooves-inc.com/bosch-indeg ... GWEALw_wcB

Dealer in Spain:
https://www.techinn.com/en/bosch-indego ... wnEALw_wcB

Mower product page:
https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/garden/ ... lawnmowers

[Jaroslav]

Beware of Bosch mowing robots. Good idea, poor implementation. You would be just frustrated if your garden is not of a very simple shape. I have two of them so I know what I am talking about.

This one looks very promising:
https://www.toadi.com/